Sinric's Close Helm Pattern

Jean Paul de Sens · Post by **Jean Paul de Sens** » Sun May 11, 2008 9:36 am

Ok, I'm working on making one of these

http://www.eskimo.com/~cwn/close.html

Top went together really well, no problems. I started to attach the side/back pieces, and it seems like there's something wrong with the pattern. I say that because when I measure the line of the helm top piece to the cutout edge, it's 7.125", but the matching edge on the side piece is only 6.25".

So has anyone else made this pattern? did you experience the same thing?

TIA,
JP

knitebee · Post by **knitebee** » Sun May 11, 2008 10:37 am

While I haven't used that pattern in particular.... The techniques and tools used by one person versus another can and will effect how the finished size of the helm top halves turn out. Its possible to compress, expand or leave the same the metal around the base where you are having it not line up, thus changing the deminsion of the finished pieces.

Brian

Jean Paul de Sens · Post by **Jean Paul de Sens** » Sun May 11, 2008 10:56 am

knitebee wrote:While I haven't used that pattern in particular.... The techniques and tools used by one person versus another can and will effect how the finished size of the helm top halves turn out. Its possible to compress, expand or leave the same the metal around the base where you are having it not line up, thus changing the deminsion of the finished pieces.

Brian

While I'm aware of that, it's an almost 15% difference, which is pretty significant.

JP

Dierick · Post by **Dierick** » Sun May 11, 2008 11:57 am

By chance are you trying to fit the back plate to the cut out area that it is pictured next to in the pattern? I'm about 98% sure that the cut out area of the skull is the front, and the extended area is where the back should be welded on. Also, on the back piece, the longer section which is shown in the pattern as the lower left is the top.

Just thought we should mark of the simple reasons first.

Jean Paul de Sens · Post by **Jean Paul de Sens** » Sun May 11, 2008 12:15 pm

Dierick wrote:By chance are you trying to fit the back plate to the cut out area that it is pictured next to in the pattern? I'm about 98% sure that the cut out area of the skull is the front, and the extended area is where the back should be welded on. Also, on the back piece, the longer section which is shown in the pattern as the lower left is the top.

Just thought we should mark of the simple reasons first.

No, I'm trying to match it to the part of the pattern that is on the other sheet. It is good to run through the quick sanity checks first though.

JP

Dierick · Post by **Dierick** » Sun May 11, 2008 12:26 pm

The only thing that I can think of is that he left room for the prominent ridge across the top of the helm. I pulled up both parts of the patterns and measured and sure enough, they are off. Outside of a mistake with the pattern, thats the only thing that makes sense.

lorenzo2 · Post by **lorenzo2** » Sun May 11, 2008 4:02 pm

The ridge on my patterns has a big affect on the side pieces. I think Derrick has probably got your solution.

mattmaus · Post by **mattmaus** » Mon May 12, 2008 7:13 am

I've made 2 of them using his patterns. I also based all the close burgonets I've made off of the same pattern.

I've gone through so many variations of the back plates that I don't even have the originals any more.

In my experience, they just don't match up. Ever.

He has 2 versions of the pattern now, and I've got scraps of each.

Here's how I remember it working.

The facial opening on the bowls is just that, a facial opening. I think it's a wider one, but I can't remember. It's for a face. Just past the edges of your eyes.

The back plates are a lot further back. Like, the front edge, to the center of your ear.

This is where the difference occurs.

The first time I made it, I had the same problem, so I stretched the back plates out a LOT longer. That didn't work very well, and I ended up trimming them out anyway.

I still stretch them out, adding 1/2"-1" along the front edge of the backplate, but that may not be neccisary.

In either case, the ones that I've made all had 1/4"-1" extra at the brow line, and at the front edge of the back plates.

I decide where to trim, and try to take off enough that I can trace a sanding disk, or a roll of masking tape in the corner to give it a soft radius.

It takes a bit of fitting with the bevor, and the top plate of the visor to figure out where you want to trim.

Be a bit careful trimming the front edge of the back plate. The further you cut it back, the further the bevor comes back, and it can get tight on the neck and chin.

Does any of that make sense?

Jean Paul de Sens · Post by **Jean Paul de Sens** » Mon May 12, 2008 2:15 pm

Matt, yes it does. Thank you very much. I decided to do as you did, and just increase the side-back plates, although I added 14% to the pattern (so it gets bigger in all dimensions. It looked ok, and I was getting ready to weld it when I realized I was out of shielding gas...

I'll get some more gas tonight

JP

mattmaus · Post by **mattmaus** » Mon May 12, 2008 6:44 pm

Jean Paul de Sens wrote:I was getting ready to weld it when I realized I was out of shielding gas...

I hate it when that happens.

At least it's a Monday when the welding supply place is open.

I hate it more when I have 3-4 projects that need welding on a saturday morning and I'm stuck for 2 days with no gas.