The Armour Archive

so, the thread name says it all.
personally, i strap it to the belt, but the belt breaks often where the rivet is. any suggestions?
p.s. maybe i need to cut a thicker spot from the leather...

Attach it to a purpoint.

I attach mine to a belt.

beholder wrote:so, the thread name says it all.
personally, i strap it to the belt, but the belt breaks often where the rivet is. any suggestions?
p.s. maybe i need to cut a thicker spot from the leather...

Instead of rivetting to the belt, run a strap from the leg harness up and over the belt and back to a buckle near the leg harness. Makes an adjustable attachment to the belt that doesn't put a hole in the belt and doesn't tear at that one attachment point.

It's also helpful to use a larger sort of belt (search for "c-belt" in the archive), and have buckles mounted on the belt for straps coming up from the leg harness.

The pourpoint is the period solution and, from many reports of those who have tried them, works quite well.

The belt solutions are easier to make for one's self (unless one happens to be a tailor).

Now there are those here who will argue the varied historicities of pointing legharness to a pourpoint worn under the arming-cote or -doublet, or of pointing to the arming-cote itself, with respect given also to your harness' period. The contending viewpoints run as follows:
1) Use a tailored arming-cote, close- and form-fitting at the waist and a bit easier about the shoulders. It's an exactly tailored version of the Charles de Blois (search the site on that term) cotehardie a grands-assietes with an array of points at the waist to carry your legharness. They'll contend this is better attested in history, artwork that has detail of this kind, and primary source material generally. 2) The separate-pourpoint argument points to some historical sourcing itself, though admittedly vaguer. It's considered a lot simpler to tailor, as it is just a lengthened vest reaching to below your jeans pockets and it does just one main job instead of two or three -- it is the garment your points are secured to and the entire affair holds your legharness up like really broad suspenders. It too is snugged to your waist contours so it carries some of the load at your beltline as well as your shoulders. I think a good many of these have adjustment lacings center back to cinch the waist properly, and center front fastening tends to be laces also, being stronger than buttons though longer to do up. A cotehardie/arming doublet of less expert tailoring may be donned on top of this, now needing only to pad the wearer's upper half and anchor some of his upper harness, say if he is using German arms.

The separate pourpoint is something of an SCA-Engineered school of harness design solution. It makes a good place to put your SCA kidney plates: firmly held and deeply hidden, so as not to impair the period silhouette of the rest of your armor. This of course is if your body armor is the softer sort; it is not needed with a breast and back.

It comes by its pourpoint name honestly -- it's "pour points" and it is built of two layers at least and perhaps a layer of needled cotton within to give shape and smoothness to the piece, as well as reinforcement. The area where the points are put in can be both built of more layers for greater strength and the holes grommeted, eyeleted, buttonhole eyeleted or buttonholed reinforced with lacing rings. These are all about equal for strength. Buttonholed and reinforced-buttonholed are probably the most period construction methods.

The ability to adjust your anchor points back and forth as well as the length of your suspending straps/points will be valuable, so design this in from the beginning: have extra holes for points available for use.

shoelaces.... ah the life of a student

When I use thigh armour, I tried all of the buckle,strap, rivet methods out there to attach to a belt. I found that a hole in the belt and some paracord was the best for me. It also made it easy to adjust the height and placement as needed.

shovel greaves... so a strap at the ankle and a strap riding at the top of the calf.

I wear concealed crash pads for thigh protection.

I never figured out how to comfortably wear things hanging from a belt or whatever, so i gave up tryin'.

This way i can flat out run across the field without a problem.

The C-belt is the most comfortable way to do it that I've found.

Dmitriy wrote:The C-belt is the most comfortable way to do it that I've found.

It's not just for chicks anymore. Seriously, most comfortable way I've found...

Konstantin the Red wrote:Now there are those here who will argue the varied historicities of pointing legharness to a pourpoint worn under the arming-cote or -doublet, or of pointing to the arming-cote itself, with respect given also to your harness' period. The contending viewpoints run as follows:
1) Use a tailored arming-cote, close- and form-fitting at the waist and a bit easier about the shoulders. It's an exactly tailored version of the Charles de Blois (search the site on that term) cotehardie a grands-assietes with an array of points at the waist to carry your legharness. They'll contend this is better attested in history, artwork that has detail of this kind, and primary source material generally. 2) The separate-pourpoint argument points to some historical sourcing itself, though admittedly vaguer. It's considered a lot simpler to tailor, as it is just a lengthened vest reaching to below your jeans pockets and it does just one main job instead of two or three -- it is the garment your points are secured to and the entire affair holds your legharness up like really broad suspenders. It too is snugged to your waist contours so it carries some of the load at your beltline as well as your shoulders. I think a good many of these have adjustment lacings center back to cinch the waist properly, and center front fastening tends to be laces also, being stronger than buttons though longer to do up. A cotehardie/arming doublet of less expert tailoring may be donned on top of this, now needing only to pad the wearer's upper half and anchor some of his upper harness, say if he is using German arms.

The separate pourpoint is something of an SCA-Engineered school of harness design solution. It makes a good place to put your SCA kidney plates: firmly held and deeply hidden, so as not to impair the period silhouette of the rest of your armor. This of course is if your body armor is the softer sort; it is not needed with a breast and back.

It comes by its pourpoint name honestly -- it's "pour points" and it is built of two layers at least and perhaps a layer of needled cotton within to give shape and smoothness to the piece, as well as reinforcement. The area where the points are put in can be both built of more layers for greater strength and the holes grommeted, eyeleted, buttonhole eyeleted or buttonholed reinforced with lacing rings. These are all about equal for strength. Buttonholed and reinforced-buttonholed are probably the most period construction methods.

The ability to adjust your anchor points back and forth as well as the length of your suspending straps/points will be valuable, so design this in from the beginning: have extra holes for points available for use.

+1. What Konstantin the Red said. It worked for them it will work for you.
This has got to be the most comfortable way.

I recently commissioned a new set of leg armour.

While it was being made, I sewed myself a pourpoint. Basically it's a vest that laces up the front. It is very form fitting, with wide, deeply inset arm holes.

The legs point to the bottom of this garment. I have not yet fought it it, but I can tell it is by far the most comfortable arrangement I've ever worn.

When I started fighting, I used a weight-lifter's belt to attach the legs to. The problem with this arrangement is that it bit into the hips.

Later, I attached suspenders to the belt. This helped a lot, as it transfers the weight to the shoulders.

The pourpoint is the bomb. While it also directly transfers the weight to the shoulders, because it is so tight fitting it basically transfers the load to the entire torso. It is extremely comfortable.

Steve

I have a H-harness that my belt goes through. H... as in a strap connecting the suspender-like-web-belts that going over my shoulders. One in front, one in back. Front one has a buckle.

When using leather straps, I prefer to sew them to whatever with artificial sinew or waxed thread. I recently redid one buckle on my harness because I needed to move it to accomodate my new leg armor. Using waxed thread lasted for 7 years, whereas all of the riveted straps I've used on that armor have failed at least 2 times during that 7 years.

Konstantin the Red wrote:Now there are those here who will argue the varied historicities of pointing legharness to a pourpoint worn under the arming-cote or -doublet, or of pointing to the arming-cote itself, with respect given also to your harness' period. The contending viewpoints run as follows:
1) Use a tailored arming-cote, close- and form-fitting at the waist and a bit easier about the shoulders. It's an exactly tailored version of the Charles de Blois (search the site on that term) cotehardie a grands-assietes with an array of points at the waist to carry your legharness. They'll contend this is better attested in history, artwork that has detail of this kind, and primary source material generally. 2) The separate-pourpoint argument points to some historical sourcing itself, though admittedly vaguer. It's considered a lot simpler to tailor, as it is just a lengthened vest reaching to below your jeans pockets and it does just one main job instead of two or three -- it is the garment your points are secured to and the entire affair holds your legharness up like really broad suspenders. It too is snugged to your waist contours so it carries some of the load at your beltline as well as your shoulders. I think a good many of these have adjustment lacings center back to cinch the waist properly, and center front fastening tends to be laces also, being stronger than buttons though longer to do up. A cotehardie/arming doublet of less expert tailoring may be donned on top of this, now needing only to pad the wearer's upper half and anchor some of his upper harness, say if he is using German arms.

The separate pourpoint is something of an SCA-Engineered school of harness design solution. It makes a good place to put your SCA kidney plates: firmly held and deeply hidden, so as not to impair the period silhouette of the rest of your armor. This of course is if your body armor is the softer sort; it is not needed with a breast and back.

It comes by its pourpoint name honestly -- it's "pour points" and it is built of two layers at least and perhaps a layer of needled cotton within to give shape and smoothness to the piece, as well as reinforcement. The area where the points are put in can be both built of more layers for greater strength and the holes grommeted, eyeleted, buttonhole eyeleted or buttonholed reinforced with lacing rings. These are all about equal for strength. Buttonholed and reinforced-buttonholed are probably the most period construction methods.

The ability to adjust your anchor points back and forth as well as the length of your suspending straps/points will be valuable, so design this in from the beginning: have extra holes for points available for use.

JUst an FYI, the Pourpoint as a vest, shows up in two documents concerning arming - one, the earlier Hall manuscript of "How A MAn Shall be armed, from the 1430's (not the later 1450 example most are familiar with), and from an ordinance of Louis XI concerning the armour for Francs Archiers - the first example was for suspending leg harness - the second, for suspending hosen, while not bunching up or causing a man to over heat in a 20, or 30(!) layer jack, covered in deerskin as outmost layer.

most comfortable way I've found.

no weight of armor on my hips at all.....

I have 3 coats from Klaus

the legs point straight to them

i have 3 puripoints that i point legs to, i wear those under my Gmadragora coats.

Well, Conal, it's a very useful pic, it is... and your photog really should have had you assume a more comfortable expression.

Yup, I made just what Conal has.

Steve

Konstantin the Red wrote:Well, Conal, it's a very useful pic, it is... and your photog really should have had you assume a more comfortable expression.

How's this?

You forgot your greaves !!!

-barnet

Simply attach them to your belt with laces. It's that easy!

Dierick wrote:Attach it to a purpoint.

Ditto

Been wearing one for about 5 years now. Never a more comfortable solution have I found.

I use points on mine off a belt.

Beholder,

This is what I use.

The top picture is the inside. The shiny pleather is covering the blue Wal Mart foam sleeping pad that I cut for kidney protection.

BaronConal wrote:How's this?

Only the most demanding would call for a tasseled pillow at one end and a nice doggie at the other!

Baron Conal,
could you share the construction method (double layered? lined? material) and who made the patter/mock up for you?

Thanks,
Christian Darmody

Darmody wrote:Baron Conal,
could you share the construction method (double layered? lined? material) and who made the patter/mock up for you?

Thanks,
Christian Darmody

If you are asking about the pourpoint....

Two layers of cotton canvas. Next one will probably be linen
canvas, we were working out the pattern... this is version
two. MUCH better than #1

We used the 'push an awl trough to spread the fibers instead of
cutting holes for the points' technique suggested by Historic Enterprises
( I think it was them ) The first one we did not and the points ripped
thru in short order...

Wife sews

( she does not let me use her sewing machine
I do not let her use my power tools)

Everyone stays happy.

A while back she made up an excel spreadsheet that you
enter your measurements into and it tells you how to draw
a pattern for a ( harry-olf-son..... never can remember how
to spell that ) gown, step by step.... Really cool. I tried to share
it but it's too big for an attachment. ( discussing a webpage
over the weekend, maybe I can put it there and link to it )

I'm trying to get her to start to work on a pourpoint spreadsheet

I'll try to plop her down in front of the computer later to
see if she can add anything useful to this....

If you are asking about the 'angel' wing

The angel wing surcoat is linen. Copied from a really old
piece of garb. The original was getting old and I had lost
a LOT of weight.... Just as a joke I put it on OVER my armor
and it still fit so I kept wearing it.... I could ask the maker of
the linen one if she can what she learned making it if you want...

Konstantin the Red wrote:Only the most demanding would call for a tasseled pillow at one end and a nice doggie at the other!

I have room in my armor bag for the pillow.... But I have
delusions of grander, I'd prefer a lion.....

Oh, go all the way -- a gryphon!

Or a Spitfire Mk. XXI engine... a Griffin...

Creative Anachronists being what they are, the lion is likely to be a huge stuffed plushie... the teeth, list-legal. Maybe an X of Ductape on its rump...