SCA - Brigandine Questions

[Lucian Ro]

I'm in the beginning phases of constructing a 14th century brigandine and I've come across a few issues.

- Is there normally a backing put on it or is it simply the top leather/canvas/suede/what-have-you and then the plates rivetted to them or are the plates "sandwiched" between two layers?

- I learned from a previous thread that most of the torso plates overlap, but should that also be the case with the shoulders too?

- I've heard of brass roofing nails used but couldn't douple-cap rivets be used also? Maybe not as period but I'd think they'd save time.

- What's the earliest time frame that a front-strapped brig could feasibly be worn?

[audax]

Are you meaning a brigandine with a bunch of little plates or a coat of plates which uses fewer and larger plates? CoP's were the standard 14th century armour from the beginning to the end of the century. You see coats of plates (not by that name) in assizes of arms from the 13th century at least.

As far as backing sometimes yes and sometimes no. Personal preference.

Not sure what you mean by shoulder plates. Do you mean shoulder cops?

You can easily use end cap rivets if that is your preference.

Front strapped brigs are seen in the late 14th cent onward.

CoP reconstructions here: http://www.hoashantverk.se/hantverk/hoa ... index.html

[Mad Matt]

You can't get brass roofing nails they're copper. The two piece rivets work great. They have the added advantage of the fact that the rivet will usually fail before the shell material does. This means you can replace the rivet instead of the shell.

As far as overlapping plates goes. If you've got a small plate that doesn't overlap the force of a blow is spread only over that small plate. If you have a group of overlapping small plates the force of a blow is spread over a larger area. You can do it either way. Overlap gives you more protection though.

Putting a backing is generally not the best idea. Someone tried that here quite a long time ago and when he got hit the thing pretty much exploded. You're going to be wearing a gambeson under it as well as maille if you want to do an accurate kit. You don't need to line the coat.

You're pretty safe with a front opening coat anywhere in the second half of the 14th. And pretty much all of the 15th.

[Konstantin the Red]

Brigandines proper are fifteenth century. Whether they are truly descended from a CoP is not, I think, known. We don't know of any persuasive intermediate forms between a true CoP and a true early brigandine. There seems a gap of some decades, not very convincingly bridged by the corrazina/covered breast, which indeed may be the brigandine's true direct ancestor, but was of quite different form from the good ole CoP.

I learned from a previous thread that most of the torso plates overlap, but should that also be the case with the shoulders too?

Any reason it should not? Its scales really just continue right up until everything meets at the top of the shoulder.

What will your scale material be? This can affect your choice of fasteners.

Two layers of canvas for the shell, and optionally a beauty layer of either fabric or in some cases garment leather, such as an example in the Musée de l'Armee at the Invalides, Paris. But leather like that is surely too hot for Trimaris. Use an awl to push the fabric's weave open enough to get the rivet shank through.

"Brigandine nayles" really were nail like, built like a very robust upholstery tack complete with a sharp point to get through the fabric and find its way to holes in metal scales punched for this purpose. Certain tacks may drive through N.P.M. (Non Period Material, that is, plastic) scales without having to make holes first.

What's the earliest time frame that a front-strapped brig could feasibly be worn?

From 1420? AFAIK, corrazinas from the couple decades previous were constructed very like brigs, just using considerably larger plates and hence correspondingly more rigid. The brig seems to have been esteemed in the fifteenth for being strong, comfortable, and useful even if it were cheaply made, though very aristocratic and expensive top-end brigs were also much in evidence.

http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=85346