The Armour Archive

I am (finally) finishing my globose breastplate that I started about a year and a half ago. I will post pics later.

I made a listre d'arret (sp?) or stop rib styled after the Churburg #14 breastplate. It is similar but with a little artistic license in the styling. Even though they are on two of the Churburg breast plates, how common were they in 1370-1390 England? I don't remember seeing them often in art. To commonly represent the breastplates of the time, should I just leave it off? It it to uncommon to put it on? I had originally planned on having it, but I am not committed to putting it on.

Your input is appreciated.

A globose breastplate looks a little unfinished without a lisière d'arrêt. Remember England imported the bulk of its nice aristocratic armours from Continental sources. Only much later than your piece's times did a distinctively English school of armor design emerge, in the first half of the sixteenth century, temp. Henry VIII.

deff put it on. not only is it the finishing touch, it's an invaluable defensive tool as well.

well what you have to remember...is that armours were often covered in that period. I mean with surcoat, lentners, houpplandes...etc. both in art, and in effigies. however looking at surviving BPs-(not too many at that)were almost always as a rule fitted with listre d'arrets. not only on the BP, but many other parts of the armour as well had them. check out some of the vambraces and even cuisses from the Chalcis finds.

read Doug Strong's article on it. very informative.

go for it.

Aaron

I have to disagree with Konstantin and Aaron. It seems to me that these were a relatively short lived fashion stradeling the the turn of the 15th century by about a decade on either side. I can't recall seeing any depicted on English harnes at all.

I'm going to have to disagree with myself as well now. I did not see the england part of it... I feel foolish.

Cet, only about a decade on either side? what about the Avant harness? that clearly has a listre d'arret, as do other italian harness of the time if I'm not mistaken.

Aaron

The Avant does have an applied rib but the "avant" is not a globose breastplate; also the rib is of a very different shape than seen of globose a shallow 'M" rather than a sharp "V"

I don't mean to say they disappeared post 1410 but I think they reached their height of popularity in 1390-1410 time frame with the Italians hanging on to them till the 1440's or so

gosh, I'm just not reading tonight.

thank you for your insight Cet.

Aaron

So are you saying that the stop rib on a globose breastplate would not be accurate for any presentation of an English man at arms at any time period? Or it would only be correct from 1390-1410?

For an English portrayal I would leave it off, even for 1390-1410. it can always be added if evidence to the contrary is found.

There are a great many English effigies depicting breastplates in this form from the last quarter of the 14th century through the early 15th century, and there are no stop ribs depicted. Conversely, there are a number of German effigies clearly showing stop ribs. They seem to have used on the continent, but not in England. Sadly, there are not any known English existing armours to reference. Good luck & post photos.

Valerius

Old_bear wrote:There are a great many English effigies depicting breastplates in this form from the last quarter of the 14th century through the early 15th century, and there are no stop ribs depicted. Conversely, there are a number of German effigies clearly showing stop ribs. They seem to have used on the continent, but not in England. Sadly, there are not any known English existing armours to reference. Good luck & post photos.

Valerius

That being said, if effigies can be trusted, in England we should not be seeing a breastplate hardly at all. They should be covered with a surcote. What is beneath the surcote is anybody's guess though effigies do not show a lump where it would be so the may not have had them. I put one on mine but no one ever sees it.

Armoured Air Bear wrote: however looking at surviving BPs-(not too many at that)were almost always as a rule fitted with listre d'arrets. not only on the BP, but many other parts of the armour as well had them. check out some of the vambraces and even cuisses from the Chalcis finds.

read Doug Strong's article on it. very informative.

Thanks for the plug!

True, I guess I'm thinking of the later part of 14th c. / early 15th c. and there's not really anything that would indicate them. But obviously, one must be careful about making any broad assumptions.

Valerius