The Armour Archive

Once again I ask your help.

This is a project to make a different bar-grill.
I can Hand Plasma cut 11ga. mild for this face guard.
I can dish and weld.
I can grind and polish.



Help me make a nice design.
*insert beggar with hands out*
Help fight the plain ol' 1/4" round bar-grill.

Thank you for your continued support.

Hal

As that looks to be a late Roman helmet, perhaps something based off of one of these late Roman shield emblems.
[img]http://www.ne.jp/asahi/luke/ueda-sarson/MagisterGalliarum1.jpg[/img]

I like the one for Secunda Britannica.

Interesting designs, thank you.

Perhaps they could be patterned in mirror image.
Fold out across the face plate bottom breaths?

Hal

PS: Yes the Secular Britannica would work quite well.
The name fits also.

Could really see 2 of those wheels on the bottom left image put on the face plate (one over each cheek) with straight bars holding it together.

Then above them a string of Latin words followed by a clear 1inch gap where his eyes would sit.

Hummm.... letters.
That makes me think of the beautiful laser cut grill posted earlier.
It had letters under the eyes with fleur-de-leurs on the breaths.

What a treat. Yes?

Hal

The mirror image idea should work well.

Here is another idea- Gladiator helms had face grills. In the picture below you can see a helm with a face grill and over the helmet a grill by itself.



The grill without a helm would have gone into a Hoplomachus helm like the one below.


As you can see, the punched ring style was common.

Personally, I still prefer the design from the Secunda Britannica shield as that units retirees have been conjectured to be part of the core of an Arthurian army.

Do you want the faceplate to be removable?

get out your needle files

Thanks guys for the great ideas.
Some very good food for thought.
I especially like the art work Vrin posted.

Design input from the client:
Grill to be welded inside the cheek plates.
Edges trimmed with stitched leather.
No rivets on the outside of the cheek plates.


Now I have a construction problem with the requirements.
Be it 1/4" rod or a cut face grill
The leather must be stitched along the edges of the cheek plates.
Welding a grill will burn the leather and prevent refinishing the weld discoloration.
By that I mean: No acid clean up or sanding, as that will destroy the leather also.

Offsetting the grill inside to allow the addition of the leather after welding, will result in the grill sitting too far inside and make stitching impractical.

So... I have a design problem.
Any suggestions besides tossing it down the creek and refunding payment.

Hal

PS: Removable? No requirements have been added to that effect.

Trim everything but the section with the welded grille ala knotwolf:

http://www.knotwolf.com/mambo/index.php ... &Itemid=28

OR explain to the customer that he will have to change his manufacture requirements due to physics.

Hal,

A Chi-Rho would be VERY appropriate!

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q ... a=N&tab=wi

That is a neat design.



Thanks.

InsaneIrish,

I guess I will have to explain I can't do it.
Damn... now I feel like a flop!

I'm remembering something I posted about no more custom helms.

Hal

Am I to understand that the leather needs to wrap around the edge of the face opening, and not just the bottom edge?

If so then option A) you need to form the face in appropriate 1/4" stock (or similar) so that it extends 3/8 to 1/2" farther past the edge of the cheek plates then you usually would. Then you need to shape the face and install a spacer strip of steel equal to the thickness of the leather you will install. Now VERY carefully you need to weld the visor in while keeping the spacing consistant. After welding you can drill all of your holes for leather stiching so they don't intersect the bars and you can sew the leather in place by sliding it between the face and the cheak-plates. Tedious but doable.

Option B is to weld the face in flush, drill all of the holes and then notch the lether where it needs to wrap inside. Also tedius but maybe less so then option A)

In retrospect you don't even need a spacer strip for option A if you flare the edge of the cheeks outward and make sure there is no weld for the first 1/2" or so. Then you can stich the leather down and maybe even massage the cheek plates more flush with a soft hammer.

Good luck!

Sean

Yes Sean the leather is to be wrapped around the edge.
Thank you for your input.
You have solutions similar to my thoughts.
However they may lead to a less than desirable result.

I think the best thing is to have no leather trim next to the grill.
Either that, or go with brass trim all around.

Hal

I trim everything except where the grill is in contact.

Thanks Adam,

That sounds like the best solution at this time.

Hal

My solution was to stitch the exterior sides and enamal the border of the grill with a matching nail polish. I then used a fine sharpie to draw in the stiches

Neat solution. Thanks for the pic.
Nice looking helm.

I have even thought about gluing a stitched piece on to fake it.
However I do not believe it would hold up well to a rattan strike.

Hal

WMA made helm and you are correct, the glued on solution gets torn apart in no time.

How about making the grill a little smaller than the cheeks. Then have it flare back out for the weld points. Then add on the leather after. It will be a real pain to stitch on but it will be doable. I will doodle up a picture and then post it so you can see what I am talking about.

The top of the picture is the outside of the helmet.

1. Is the Cheek Plate
2. The Trim
3. The Faceplate

Just an idea.

I designed this type of helmet to have trim all the way around, the grill had only 3 contac points, one at hte chin, one at the corner of each eye.
I decided I like the crazy strenght of having the grill fixed all along the cheek.

Well, I get a reprieve on this particular helm.
The client will be happy with a standard bar grill welded along the edge of the cheek.
I will then rivet brass trim all around.

Thanks for all the good help.
Next helm will get the new grill.
Perhaps I should work on a generic face plate, as several members have asked me for a CNC cut face only.

Hal