riveted chainmail hauberk vs Butted chainmail?

[GavinKyncade]

Hello all,

I have done plenty of butted chainmail and was thinking of making a hauberk for my kit. Of the chainmail I have seen on the lyst fields, they have been riveted maile, and I have never done riveted rings.

My question is what would prevent someone from wearing butted rings in SCA Heavy combat vs riveted rings? Other than more frequent repairs?
If care was taken to use good quality and a good temper on the metal?

Thanks

[Aaron]

In previous time butted was fine. But now I would wonder if there would be a concern about loose rings going flying into people's eyeslots, etc...

Welded or rivetted is better IMO.

With respect,

-Aaron

[Cedric]

Weight - rivetted can use thinner wire so weighs a lot less
Maintenance - with my old butted shirt I shed at least 6 rings every practice. My rivetted shirt has lost maybe 3 or 4 in as many years.
Looks - rivetted just looks cooler

Rivetted for the win.

[Kilkenny]

Hello all,

I have done plenty of butted chainmail and was thinking of making a hauberk for my kit. Of the chainmail I have seen on the lyst fields, they have been riveted maile, and I have never done riveted rings.

My question is what would prevent someone from wearing butted rings in SCA Heavy combat vs riveted rings? Other than more frequent repairs?
If care was taken to use good quality and a good temper on the metal?

Thanks

Budget. For most of us, making our own rivetted is impractical so we have to buy it. Butted is easy to make and much cheaper - in terms of financial cost. Maintenance of butted used in combat is a constant chore, and if the wire is heavy enough to hold up worth a darn, the suit will weigh *much* more than a rivetted or welded one.

[GavinKyncade]

Yes, I guess my other concern is price, and it would be cheaper to go the route of butted over riveted.

Perhaps if I only used the hauberk for Tourneys and practiced in something else more durable, say a Coat of Plates?

So as to save wear and tear on the chainmail?

Also what about using Spring Steel - stainless rings? tempered for strength? Yeah it would be harder to weave the maile, but it should last longer and have fewer repairs too?

[Kilkenny]

Yes, I guess my other concern is price, and it would be cheaper to go the route of butted over riveted.

Perhaps if I only used the hauberk for Tourneys and practiced in something else more durable, say a Coat of Plates?

So as to save wear and tear on the chainmail?

Also what about using Spring Steel - stainless rings? tempered for strength? Yeah it would be harder to weave the maile, but it should last longer and have fewer repairs too?

I've been working with some 16 ga. stainless wire for a while. It certainly holds up better than your average galvanized fence wire. Still requires repairs with far greater frequency than the rivetted stuff.

It isn't that butted can't work - SCA fighters used it almost exclusively for decades - it just doesn't compare favorably to rivetted or welded on anything but the cash outlay basis.

[GavinKyncade]

OK, so can u weld stainless steel rings after they have been butted?
I have not heard of a good way to weld them after assembled.

I assume one would start with half of the rings already welded or solid, and then weld the other half? On the same thought, half solid rings, and half riveted? If you weave using the 2 rows at once method, you could weave it pretty fast picking up the 2 welded or solid rings as you add a new ring?

Thanks
G

[mordreth]

In previous time butted was fine. But now I would wonder if there would be a concern about loose rings going flying into people's eyeslots, etc...

Welded or rivetted is better IMO.

With respect,

-Aaron

I've never seen or heard of butted rings flying through an eyeslot

[Charles Alexander]

14 gauge rings may hold up well enough. 14 gauge 5/16 stainless rings are STRONG... But heavy....

Here's a tip I heard from someone else. Consider using split rings. They can be used alongside solid punched rings. Not very historical, but easier to go with than making your own riveted or welded. Would definitely hold better than butted.

[losthelm]

drop by theringlord.com/forum and have a look.

butted is a quicker hauburk to make but the weight and upkeep is a draw back.
riveted takes a bit longer and both special tools and material to construct. but its a stronger ring but it takes a lot more time/money.
welded takes more specialized tools time and money.

that and you still need to have a harder material covering your kidneys and short ribs.

most mail on the list field is mass produced in far off places like india and pakistan
althought there are a few people in the states that do the work the labor costs realy eat up any profit when you have to compeat with out of country cheap labor.

[GavinKyncade]

I have a basic sca starter fighting kit, some of my own, some loaned, some in the process of being built, to replace loaned gear.

For Xmas, I am replacing my loaned legs with bought articlulated Knee cops, and hand made leather Cuisses, and maybe demi-greeves, armored with steel splints.

Then replacing my old arms with a similar setup. Articulated Elbow cops with Leather Vambrace with steel splints.

So the Chainmaile Hauberk would be to replace my handmade Coat of Plates (canvas Duck and aluminum plates). And would be used in Tourney's over a good owned Gambeson.

A bought Sutton Hu helmet, hand made harderend Leather demi-gauntlets, handmade plywood heater sheild, and a pair of 34" Single-handed swords w/plastic cup hilts, finish up the kit.

G