The Armour Archive

Hey all. I have been working on a hauberk using Historic Enterprises riveted mail links. They come with a HEAVY black oxide coating that turns my hands black after about 5 minutes of work and gets all over everything. The site says that it will eventually 'wear off' after use, but I doubt it. I have seen very little evidence of it wearing off, and imagine it would turn a gambeson black first.

After searching old posts, I made a first attempt with the conventional vinegar and sand technique. I used a handful of relatively coarse sand in a half gallon jug of white vinegar. After about 10 minutes of shaking I noticed that a lot of the coating did in fact come off, leaving a dull light gray color that looked like satin aluminum. I took the mail out and rinsed it and hand dried it and then let it air out. After about 10 minutes it took on a tan/brownish color, no doubt rust. I oiled it, and now it looks nearly as dark as it does when I started, but it doesnt leave the same black residue.

Has anyone had luck polishing this type of mail? I want a bright steel finish, and I know it is possible. Also what type of oil are people using. The only thing I had available was veg. oil and WD - 40. Does the appropriate technique involve just sand and no liquid? Acid? soapy water? scouring vs tumbling? Thanks

Wear it lots
It will stay clean.

-Graedwyn

Most techniques I've heard of involve sand alone. Some have ventured to put their mail in a bag with sand and put it in their clothes dryer. The wife might get mad if you should break it, so I would suggest using the other method - get a big bucket with a lid, insert sand and mail, push the bucket down a hill... a lot. Mail is remarkably good at cleaning itself when being worn, so don't worry too much about rust or anything else. The mail will get clean eventually, as long as it gets used.

Well there are a number of options for tumbling media.
Sand, walnut shell, Rice oyster shell. cracked corn,
diatomaceous earth, and flour to name a few.
the bottom list is usualy used for a jewlery type metals Rings.
tumbling it dry will help a bunch but to keep it from forming a russet coat

If you decide to go with the machine tumbler option an old dryer fron craigs list might be a good investment. tumbling by hand gets old quick its a great way to keep children busy though.

You need some kind of protective layer after the pollish.
personaly I like furniture polish like pledge or Liquid Gold.
Barisol is the best option that I have found but I do not like the smell.
Due to the movement and wear it will need to be reapplied regularly.

Konstantine the Red may have some other options.

ugh, well not sure I will be able to get another dryer, so looks like hand tumbling for me. Maybe I can get a few links in the maracas of the local mariachi band.

I am not going to be wearing this shirt for sca/ reenactment. Does that change your recommendation on coatings?

I have had very good luck using Kaboom to remove the black coating from Indian made mail. I have only done smaller pieces, a standard and a couple of skirts. I just put the items in a zip lock bag then added the kaboom. There was no scrubbing just a soak folloed by a rub down with a towel. I also have liked the pledge/future floor polish as a protective coating.

In the attached photo you can see differences between sections of mail that were submerged in the kaboom and sections that were not.

how long did you leave them in?

Anyone every try CLR?

I got my mail polished by a guy who took the blades out of a cement mixer. He puts the mail in with a bunch of rags. The trick is changing over the rags when they get too oily and running the mixer on a very low speed. The speed is the trick, if you go too fast all the rags get tangled up.

Now I have never seen this work myself. All I know is cleaning the sump oil of indian maille is a pain in the arse, and this guy polished mine for $20 Oz. The maille was then lightly oiled and it looked well shiny.

Good luck.

just rags?
that sounds cool, but i have nothing available to work as a tumbler. I wasn't able to locate Kaboom and am trying Tilex mildew right now with limited affect.

I recall a long long time ago seeing a post, (think it was on here) about a guy who built a contraption to attach a barrel to the back of his bike that he filled with sand. IIRC he'd ride his bike around the neighborhood with the sand barrel rolling behind to polish his chainmail. I bet it wouldn't be too hard to build some sort of stationary bike that turned a barrel. Plus on top of your polished chain you'd get exercise!

A way I ran across to polish other stuff is put it in a 5 gal plastic barrel (slightly shorter height fits better if you can find one) with your choice of polishing media and a tight lid. Then center the bucket in the dryer with foam (think sofa cushion consistency) and run it on air dry only (no heat) until polished.

As a preface, I do not use the HE rings, but I did have some in the past from Forth Armory that I did use. I also do a great deal of work with stainless steel (alloy 304) and bright aluminum both from Ring Lord to make "novelty" chainmail items such as the bears I've offered on here a few times along with dice bags. Both of these metals come with an oil coating from the machinery that TRL uses.

Before I use any of the rings, I put them in a 1-pound Lortone rock tumbler which I fill to about half with the metal rings. I then add enough cheap rice (generally par-boiled rice from the local bulk food store) to bring it up to about 3/4 full. Then, I just plug it in and let it run - about 3 to 5 hours for aluminum and up to 12 hours for the steel. Shake them out to separate the metal from the rice, rinse the rings under some tap water and let them dry. Instant clean rings that don't really leave any trace on my hands.

I'll often run the completed items through the tumbler when finished but that's more for just the polished "ooh shiny!" factor that the Renn Faire and fantasy crowd really goes for.

The Lortone tumblers can sometimes be found on eBay which is where I found mine for a reasonable price. Or perhaps try any rock/gem/mineral clubs that you may have in your area.

Good luck!

markrobertmitchell wrote:how long did you leave them in?

I had to leave the skirt in for several hours.
This was most due to the fact that I did not have enough liquid in the bag to cover the whole thing. I had to keep flipping it over every hour or so to make sure every part got a good soak. I would sugesst that you try it on a few loose rings first.

Tom

{question deleted, decided to start a new subject}

Evapo Rust works great. You don't need to completely immerse the maille.

In regards to a tumble dryer.... why not just go to a laundry mat? I would use multiple layers of plastic bags and then put it inside a zip up pillow case or something (no liquids), but it should be fine.

I've been considering doing this with my modern stainless steel mail to polish it up some.

There are medieval inventories listing barrels for cleaning mail, but I've never seen anything specifically calling for sand and vinegar. Pine shavings work well in tumblers, and some experiments have been done using tallow soap, which would also have been available.
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=96783&hilit=lye+soap
(I know that's a shocking thought that you can clean mail with soap, but...)

I would recommend a cheap cement mixer over the possibility (probability?) of ruining your clothes dryer. http://www.harborfreight.com/1-1-4-quar ... 91907.html At $150, it is a sort of "no brainer". The mixer is more versatile as well; you can use a wet process if you like.

Mac

Mac wrote:I would recommend a cheap cement mixer over the possibility (probability?) of ruining your clothes dryer. http://www.harborfreight.com/1-1-4-quar ... 91907.html At $150, it is a sort of "no brainer". The mixer is more versatile as well; you can use a wet process if you like.

Mac

And replacing the blades with wooden battens on the inside of the mixer helps in getting the maille to 'tumble' rather than just sliding around the inside of the tub

markrobertmitchell wrote:Has anyone had luck polishing this type of mail? I want a bright steel finish,

I too like the finish of steel. Putting my mild steel mail aventail in a hessian (burlap) bag in an old clothes dryer helped clean up some of the rain & sweat caused rusting. Didn't get into the crevices & didn't do the leather banding much good. Using bicarb soda in the spray booth works a treat tho'. Youtube "soda blasting".
Ranif

Hi

I used a rental cement mixer for half a day. Cost me 25 euros. Worked great.

Cheers,

Jan

Strange you should mention the cement mixer Mac, I've been wondering if that would work well, and I commonly get 20% off coupons from HF's.

Well, what all these guys said -- I couldn't get in last night, some outage somewhere kept my browser from finding the Archive.

What you did, Markrobertmitchell, was to combine mild steel wire, acid, and abrasion. Knocked the third-world cosmolining right off, roughed up the wire surface some, and then attacked it with a mild acid. Yep, it rusted. Maybe even a browned finish, though surface finishes just plain do not stay on mail with its self-abrasion/polishing that goes on, link on link, with wear, motion, tumbling as above, and so on.

If you're still chasing black oil-gunk as of now, go with soaps or grease cutters -- Kaboom as above, or Simple Green, I'm not all the way sure about CLR as that is intended to clean enameled tubs, chromed shower heads, stainless, and fiberglass surfaces and ceramic plates. Give the directions a good read, since what you want to know would be its behavior with bare non-stainless steel.

All in all, we've not been super thrilled with what sand-and-vinegar-plus-agitation does to metal finish. That kind of thing may have been all they had back then and they had to like it, but nowadays we've got options that don't have to leave the surface extra-vulnerable to oxidation. We gots better living through modern chemistry.

And having cleaned it, you'd like it to stay that way.

The mutual rub of links will help to burnish the metal again, but the light oiling plus putting it in an oiled cloth bag -- say, shot up good with 3M Spray Lube -- and parking it in an airtight clothing storage tub should keep you mostly rust free for both wearing and stowage. Airtight tubs and reusable dessicant packs make a good seasonal stowage team too.

And for cleaning mail grunge off your aketon, over on Interp-Rec.