Titanium Titanium Titanium

mongrel · Post by **mongrel** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 11:05 am

does anyone know of a business or businesses where one can purchase, cut, and anodize titanium? I'll have a lump of money to pour into my armor when i get back from the litterbox so i figured now would be as good a time as any other to get my 'dream suit' put into works

-mongrel-

Donald St. Colin · Post by **Donald St. Colin** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 2:45 pm

chain maille, chain maille, chain maille! get yourself some welded titanium chain maille. much cooler, in all ways, than plate.

http://weldedchainmail.com/products

Sean Powell · Post by **Sean Powell** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 3:25 pm

I know a few... but they are all hideously expensive as they are used to dealing with medical products.

Are you looking for soething like Ti Lamellar which might actually be reasonable (I would try polar bear forge) or are you looking for pieces cut to patterns for you to hammer into shape?

Sean

Vermin · Post by **Vermin** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 3:36 pm

Ugo knows a thing or two about banging on Ti..... :lol:

Destichado · Post by **Destichado** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:19 pm

Poor Ugo.

Chris Gilman · Post by **Chris Gilman** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 7:05 pm

Hey I wasn't going to bring that up, he's my hero and I wouldn't....
Oh titanium, try ebay many types availible, search "Titanium sheet".

Amanda M · Post by **Amanda M** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 7:10 pm

My local knight has titanium lamellar he put together. From what I understand punching the holes and grinding all the edges took foreeeever.

For plate now though there's a lot more people working in spring steel, which I understand is super light and the bees knees.

mongrel · Post by **mongrel** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:49 am

i'm looking for pieces cut to pattern to hammer and then place as accent on hardened black leather. . spring steel huh?. . .anyone know how a good source for said metal and whether or not it takes coloring/anodizing well?

-mongrel-

Sean Powell · Post by **Sean Powell** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 11:27 am

Mongrel,

The benefit to spring steel is the ability to shape it in it's annealed state or shape while hot. Following shaping it can then be heat-treated & tempered to change it's strength, usually greatly improving it. This is a 2 stage process that requires a kiln that can approach 1600F, a quench tank of sufficient size and a secondary trip back through the kiln to make it less brittle.

Spring steel can be heat-colored just like mild steel but you have to be careful that your heat-coloring isn't hot enough to affect your temper and that you have a good even polish an the material ahead of time. Color choice is limited and still scratches.

Spring steel can also be chemicly blued, blackened or russeted using processes for gun equipment but once again, a good polish is important.

All of the above coloring will help make the steel more rust resistant but not rust-proof like Titanium. Steel that is trapped next to a water porus substance like leather may be more prone to rusting then steel by itself.

Spring steel of various grades (1050 and 4130 being the more common armor grades) is available through large distributors like Admiral Steel. That's good if you have a loading dock and fork-lift. Smaller pieces can be gotten through McMaster-Carr but you will pay a hefty premium for the smaller size piece.

All of the armorers that I know who are capable of heat-treating spring steel are capable of ordering and cutting it as well. You may want to consider one-stop-shopping for those pieces.

If you have complicated shapes (dragon heads and funky crosses) you will want to go to an armorer who regularly gets material laser cut. Off the top of my head: Cet/Dave Rylak from 'Rough from the Hammer' or 'Polar Bear Forge' are good choices. There is also a guy in California who does some damn pretty laser cut grills as well but I can't remember his name. Cet has the ability to do the heat-treating. Polar Bear Forge does a lot of knife work so I assume that he can treat and temper steel since he does it for knives. Polar Bear Forge also does laser cut Titanium lamellar if you want to go back in that direction. Stone-keep does affordable work in spring-steel but I'm not certain what his custom work policy is.

I don't know any armorers who anodize titanium. I could track down certain industrial suppliers but you could do the same with a phone-book when you know where you will be living after you return to the states.

The above details are vague on technical details but it should give you more info to work with. If you can provide us with more details we may be able to help you along more. The best plan might be to put together a description of what you want, including pictures, and post it in the classified section to see if any armorers will bid on it.

Good luck,
Sean

mrks · Post by **mrks** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 1:10 pm

hi there

sounds like you want to do it yourself. probably much cheaper in the long run. while it can be frustrating depending on the color you desire bit... your project is doable by an amature(I was once one and didnt have the internet as a resource back then).

if you are willing to invest some money a simple harbor freight shear will cut titanium. cost $under 100?

for simple plates ebay has plenty of titanium. buy .040 ga al64v. search for titanium in business industrial. $65 to $90 worth ought to do it.
first you ned a how to book or do internet research. $25

then you need a machine: ebay: search for anodizing. machines run from 200 to $350.

a metal punch: $50 to 100 and a 1/2 inch cobalt drill bit to deburr the sharp edges from punching. wrap end of drill bit with athletic tape and one hole at a time use the drill bit business end to grind off the burr left from punching.

anodizing is not hard to do. I used to anodize some of my earliest work gold if the customer wanted it.

a large ballpeen hammer and a stump will shape or curve it. cut a channel and pound along the line of bend you desire.

you can create a compound curve in a simple dished(curved )shape by pounding a shallow depression in the stump and with a rounded hammer end aand then pound the crap out of the piece of titanium. the piece of titanium to be shape must be hitting the bottom of the hole when pounded. if it is not bottoming out... you are doing it wrong.

go here and read this thread. there is a ton of titanium information in it and it will help you make decisions as to what you want to do. http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB2/ ... nium+fumes

using ti will save you quite a bit of weight metal wise and shouldnt dent.

best of luck.

Christophe de Frisselle · Tue Mar 03, 2009 1:39 pm

TitaniumJoe.com

Sextus Maximus · Post by **Sextus Maximus** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 2:27 pm

Ever thought about doing your kit in 410?? It is Spring Stainless and just as tough as ti and alot easier to work with however you need the heat treat it and buff all out. I still think it would be easier than buying and dealing with ti.

mongrel · Post by **mongrel** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 1:36 pm

thank you for your suggestions! The reason I want to go with Ti is because of its comparable strength and decreased weight to steel in all forms. Yes, i do want to do this myself for I am of the belief that every warrior should construct their protection from the ground up, pouring their heart, soul, courage, and fighting spirit into what will soon be the armor they will depend on for years to come. Mrks you are awesome, i will be looking at the information over and over again as i go through this process. . are there any tips or tricks i should know before I purchase the Ti, and all the expensive equipment needed to produce a fine product? as of right now i plan on working cold for i have no torches or a forge, though I can most likely build one given a little time and money once i return from iraq. thank you again for your help in this matter I hope to hear from you soon.

-Mongrel out-

Sextus Maximus · Post by **Sextus Maximus** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 2:51 pm

That is umm not necessarily true with Ti. With the SCA, we deal with impact type blows, therefore you are trying to create impact resistance. Ti is tough yet in a way it is extremely hard and can crack as well as making complex curves is a nightmare. With 410 I can get away with .032 thickness with is basically 22 gauge and when is heat treated has the impact resistance of 14 gauge Stainless Steel. 410 also does not rust after you buff it out. I do theink it is very comprable to Ti and way cheaper as well material wise.

mrks · Post by **mrks** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 3:35 pm

are there any tips or tricks i should know before I purchase the Ti, and all the expensive equipment needed to produce a fine product? as of right now i plan on working cold for i have no torches or a forge, though I can most likely build one given a little time and money once i return from iraq. thank you again for your help in this matter I hope to hear from you soon.

hi

you dont need any expensive equiptment for simple shapes.

approximate costs:

$63 I would start with a piece of .040 al6-4v off of ebay. depending on how large the plates are you can also use .032 al64v Ti.

$100 a harborfrieght shear should cut it but I dont have any experience with them. you will not be able to make serious curves because it will chip the blade. for outside radious cut straight lines and grind the curve using a grinder. for inside curve us the punch and then grind to satisfaction. for straight cuts a simple straight shear will also work: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/d ... mber=38413

$50 a 8" bench grinder rated 3/4hp and 3600 rpms... buy used from craigslist or at harbor freight.

$40 canister mask. you will be dry grinding it outside with a fan blowing most of the dust away.

$50 to $75 a roperwhitney punch or a drill press. depends on the number of holes. a punch is much cheaper in the long run. A #7 roperwhitney is big enough.

not sure if you want curved plates? you will need a hammer and a stump.

that should be all you need to start making plates or pieces. shouldnt be very expensive at all.

dont worry about annodizing until you have proven the concept.