The Armour Archive

I am interested in getting metal lamellar, most likely aluminum, from http://www.polarbearforge.com/lamellar.htm to upgrade from my plastic barrel

Does anyone have any experience with it they'd like to share? A few of my friends have plastic and it seems to break consistently, how often does the aluminum version require repairs?

I'm also thinking of using plastic plates for the sides (ribs), to save on scales and to increase protection. How will that impact the mobility of the shirt?

Which plates would you recommend between 8,8b, 19,20 and 21? I see the holes are different, is it because of the required lacing pattern? If so which is best?

Yes, the different hole patterns are because there are a variety of lacing patterns.

IMHO 19, 20, 21 have the middle hole too low.
I think 21 is pure SCAdianism and this is probably also true of 8b, 19 and 20.
Of the ones you picked, 8 is best. Though it would probably do better if it extended a bit more downwards and had two holes at the bottom (though that gives you more lacing work)
see 17, 1b, 3b

For lacing intro, did you see this page?
http://www.redkaganate.org/martial/armo ... amlr.shtml

Why not use steel and leather rather than aluminum and plastic?

Metal lamellar plates aren't going to crack and bend.

They will require relacing from time to time, and that's where you'll spend most of your maintenance time.

I wore a long metal/hardened leather lamellar coat for years and the main maintenance issue for me replacing lacing in high stress areas on the metal torso section. In the highest stress points I eventually switched to small staples/twists of bronze wire; never worried about the lacing again.

Metal will bend, but I never had a plate crack or break, I've seen lots of the plastic ones do so. Also, I don't think plastic is any great weight saver in lamellar. My coat was 20 ga. steel in the body, and hardened leather skirts and shoulders/upper arms, and weighed in well under 20 lbs. I'd STILL be wearing it except for the middle aged spread issue.

alail/scott

The reason I don't want to use metal is because of the weight. Horsefriend mentionned that his coat weighted 20 pounds - from what i read aluminum is 8 pounds. That's 2.5 times more! I dont think im willing to sacrifice that much just for looks. Leather softens over time and gets moldy =/

When i said plastic plates i didnt mean lamellar, i meant 2 or 3 large plates, but that's something i'm heavily debating now. If I do that i'm gonna have to put the belts in the front, and thats ugly. One of the main reasons i'm getting this is cuz i want it to look good.

How does the 20 gauge stainless compare in strength to the 0.063 aluminum? Are bent plates hard to repair?

I had a full "hauberk" of plastic lammelar and the scale broke pretty often, a big pain, plus as much as I did like the plastic scale, after using them they feel like a cop out. they just dont look "right"

Horsefriend didnt say 20 lbs he said well under 20lbs.
I havent tried the allumnium plates, but just ordered 100 mild 22's from polar bear. will know how they are soon for a reveiw.


Also you are a fool, buckles in the front are super sexy on lammelar

Is this going to be for LARP or SCA use?

For SCA use; sometimes weight/mass can be a friend, other times its just part of playing the game.

To give you more info on your SS vs. Alum, try using the same measuring system as well what type/temper of Al are you using?

20g Stainless is going to be stronger then 20g soft aluminum with the added benefit of being "cleaner".

In parts of the thread, it seems as if you are unsure if you want to use a hidden kit or something visable that well protect you.

As far as maintainence goes, the kit with the least maintaince issues consist of a few sweatshirts, a few plastic plates and, duct tape

Everything breaks sooner or later.

Don

I have used wax-hardened leather, aluminum, and stainless steel for lamellar.

Maintenance requirements all depend on how you lace. I needed to relace the aluminum after approximately 1 to 2 years of use. The aluminum in certain locations gains a concave shape, and due to the brittleness of aluminum, it's difficult to unbend. Specifically, one band of armor had the individual plates resting with their bottom ends on my pelvis.. which over time acts like an anvil. When those pieces were struck, they were well supported at one end, kind of supported at the other end an they eventually curve.



The stainless steel is my favorite. I ordered it from Calontir Trim: the 20 gage with flutes. I used some rivetted maille rings instead of lacing. It requires about 1 hour of replacing rings every 3 to 6 months.

My stainless lamellar klibanion weighs less than the aluminum did.

I made my set out of leather. I hardened with acrylic floor polish, not very historic but it worked out well. Although it is a little stiff but I suspect it will loosen up once I actually start fighting in it. I made using a plate like 5b and based my pattern of a shirt over at this site.

http://ask-vikingekampgruppe.dk/uk0017.html

Hope that helps

leikr

It's for SCA use, most likely not gonna be hidden. The stainless is 20 gauge and the aluminum is 14 gauge, almost twice the thickness. Even then, the aluminum is much lighter than the stainless (using this table for comparison http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/gauge ... d_915.html). I'm not sure what kind of aluminum, i'd have to ask the Polar Bear guy, but at twice the thickness, the strength should be comparable no?

Why does everyone hate aluminum...? It's strong and light. Sure it wasn't available in the middle ages, but stainless steel wasnt either.

Norman wrote:IMHO 19, 20, 21 have the middle hole too low.
I think 21 is pure SCAdianism and this is probably also true of 8b, 19 and 20.
Of the ones you picked, 8 is best. Though it would probably do better if it extended a bit more downwards and had two holes at the bottom (though that gives you more lacing work)
see 17, 1b, 3b

Many of the styles that I cut are based on historical examples. Many are also made from people sending me pictures asking if I can cut a slightly different design.

Most of the accurate ones are converted from this image, http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/5296/lamellareb4.gif

Jamie

Lots of our guys use the plasticlamellar.com stuff. Usually the bigger plates. Never seen one of the bigger plates break before, but I have seen the smaller thinner ones snap like crazy. Metal plates will bend, you do need to relace your lamellar periodically, whatever. This is maintenence that any armor requires. If you want something that looks good go with a historical suit and adapt. It's a step up for you and a good one, I'm glad to see you making it.

polarbearforge wrote:

Norman wrote:IMHO 19, 20, 21 have the middle hole too low.
I think 21 is pure SCAdianism and this is probably also true of 8b, 19 and 20.
Of the ones you picked, 8 is best. Though it would probably do better if it extended a bit more downwards and had two holes at the bottom (though that gives you more lacing work)
see 17, 1b, 3b

Actually, plate #20 looks like the ones I had you cut for me. These designs were based roughly off of byzantine examples from art work, and from Egfroth's interpretation of those.

Dr. Dawson and Egfroth both interpret the construction of byzantine lamalar to be both riveted and laced to a leather backing in rows, and then those rows are laced together. The larger top and bottom hole in plate 20 allow for that riveting, and the smaller holes for a lacing pattern.

-Andronikos

kyo wrote:It's for SCA use, most likely not gonna be hidden. The stainless is 20 gauge and the aluminum is 14 gauge, almost twice the thickness. Even then, the aluminum is much lighter than the stainless (using this table for comparison http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/gauge ... d_915.html). I'm not sure what kind of aluminum, i'd have to ask the Polar Bear guy, but at twice the thickness, the strength should be comparable no?

Why does everyone hate aluminum...? It's strong and light. Sure it wasn't available in the middle ages, but stainless steel wasnt either.

Because stainless steel close approximates the weight and thickness of hardened steel. Aluminium does not. The SCA at large loves aluminium, the Archive less so because we are mostly fans of more authentic and historically probable designs. If you are going to spend the money on armour, why not go for more authentic?
I've had aluminium armour, I still work in aluminium because I often find that in the scrap bin. It's not the great Satan of armour, but it's the Lilith.

Fearghus Macildubh wrote: It's not the great Satan of armour, but it's the Lilith.

I recently went from Plastic Lamellar to Fluted Stainless from Polar Bear
And Its been the best investment ive made.
At this point ive never had any sort of damage to the plates.

If your going to go to lamellar Ide recomend the stainless, the weight really isnt much of an issue. Its well distributed over your body, and after 2-3 practices you rarely feel the difference.
And if your going for making your kit better (with Stainless or Alum) I wouldnt add in the plastic plates.. Why add plastic to it if your whole goal is to look better? Sounds counter productive.
And lamellar laced right gives great protection

Effingham wrote:

Fearghus Macildubh wrote: It's not the great Satan of armour, but it's the Lilith.

somebody needs to keep Adam company