14 Century tablet weaving question

Leikr · Post by **Leikr** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 10:55 pm

After looking at some images in the Maciejowski Bible and I am noticing a lack of trim work on the tunics. Was there not any trim work done during the 14th century? I am putting together a soft kit for 14th century Scandinavia. Was curious if any tablet weaving could be used on the tunics. Also what is the difference between card weaving and inkle?

Thanks

Owyn · Post by **Owyn** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 12:24 am

There's records of both trim and belt work in tablet weaving for the 14th. Silk seems to have gotten pretty popular in that time frame. I forget the name, but there's a book entirely of ecclesiastical weaves, some of it from the 14th. Search Amazon for tablet weaving and you can't miss it.

The difference between inkle and tablet weaving is basically the tablets.

Inkle doesn't use tablets, and tends to result in a more limited/simple weave. Some tablet weavers use inkle looms, but thread them with tablets on the warp. The ability to rotate the cards to form your pattern, to rotate individual cards to selectively change the pattern, and to flip the cards changing them from S to Z facing or vice versa adds a great deal more depth to tablet weaving than can generally be achieved with inkle.

Leikr · Post by **Leikr** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 5:15 pm

Good to know. I like the look of the weaving but wasn't sure if I was in too late of a period.

Baron Conal · Post by **Baron Conal** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 5:31 pm

Hi! Conal's wife here. If you need to know about table weaving in general and how to tablet weave, there is a book by Peter Cottingwood titled The Techniques of Tablet Weaving. The book mentioned earlier is Ecclesiastical Pomp and Aristocratic Circumstance by Nancy Spies which covers brocaded tablet weaving. If you are interested in specifically 14th century Norse-ish things, take a look at Woven into the Earth which reexamines the Greenland finds.

Thanks!
Artemisia

Leikr · Post by **Leikr** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 8:45 pm

Tablet weaving looks pretty interesting. Would be a good project to work on. I am very interested in Norse/Swedish culture. 1350s are my main interest, around Battle of Wisby. I will look for that book. Thanks for the info.

Karen Larsdatter · Post by **Karen Larsdatter** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:43 pm

Leikr wrote:After looking at some images in the Maciejowski Bible and I am noticing a lack of trim work on the tunics. Was there not any trim work done during the 14th century?

Maciejowski Bible is c. 1250. There's some textile ornamentation visible in the manuscript, but it's more hinted at than detailed. My favorite bit of textile detailing in the Maciejowski Bible are the ladies' purses on fols. 3v, 30r, and 33v.

I've seen re-creations of the Maciejowski garments using embroidery to simulate the thin white lines seen on some of the garments (especially noticeable on the necklines). The artist seems more interested in the fur linings of the garments, really.

Leikr wrote:I am putting together a soft kit for 14th century Scandinavia. Was curious if any tablet weaving could be used on the tunics. Also what is the difference between card weaving and inkle?

IIRC, part of the difference is that inkle looms date back to the 20th century, and tablet-weaving looms go back to the Middle Ages (see http://larsdatter.com/weaving.htm for images of how medieval tablet-weaving looked), but there's a way to set up an inkle loom like a tablet-weaving loom.

Owyn wrote:There's records of both trim and belt work in tablet weaving for the 14th. Silk seems to have gotten pretty popular in that time frame. I forget the name, but there's a book entirely of ecclesiastical weaves, some of it from the 14th. Search Amazon for tablet weaving and you can't miss it.

I'm pretty sure you mean <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0615116817?ie=UTF8&tag=mestkarelarsm-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=0615116817">Ecclesiastical Pomp & Aristocratic Circumstance: A Thousand Years of Brocaded Tabletwoven Bands</a>.

Owyn · Post by **Owyn** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 6:44 pm

Actually, it's Peter Collingwood (just in case anyone wanted to look it up by author for purchase). Amazing book, GREAT resource.

Also a tad advanced; not the one I'd recommend for a beginner, but it's *the* book for advanced weavers (that I know of, anyway). "Card Weaving" by Candance Crockett was my 'newbie book', although I had the advantage of a spouse with over a decade of weaving experience to get me started.

Thanks for the reminder on the Ecclesiastical book, had forgotten the title - and it's one that's "on my list" but not on our shelf yet. We've (wife and I) got Woven into the Earth as well, but I haven't gotten a chance to dig into it well, yet - looks great though!

Edit: Yeah, using inkle looms for tablet weaving isn't period; but the weaving you produce from them is, and inkles are commonly used for tablet weaving as a result because they are so easy to transport, and pick up/drop weaving as life requires. A flat loom like in the video is a period method but is often hard to transport; another is 'backstrap', or tying one end of the warp onto a fixed object and fixing the working end to yourself. I wrap it around my belt and then pin it with a tapestry needle, works great for "fast release' when I need to (twin three year olds - need I say more?).

Leikr · Post by **Leikr** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 6:52 pm

newbie books would be best for me. It seems very interesting. I like that the inkle loom is portable. Would be something I could take to work and play with during down time. As long as the outcome is period I have not problems with portability. I will check out those links as well. I love to learn new stuff.

Karen Larsdatter · Post by **Karen Larsdatter** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:56 am

Owyn wrote:Actually, it's Peter Collingwood (just in case anyone wanted to look it up by author for purchase). Amazing book, GREAT resource. Also a tad advanced; not the one I'd recommend for a beginner, but it's *the* book for advanced weavers (that I know of, anyway). "Card Weaving" by Candance Crockett was my 'newbie book', although I had the advantage of a spouse with over a decade of weaving experience to get me started.

Collingwood's <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0823052559?ie=UTF8&tag=mestkarelarsm-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=0823052559">The Techniques of Tablet Weaving</a> is harder to find these days (though BookFinder finds copies for around $40), but Crockett's <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0934026610?ie=UTF8&tag=mestkarelarsm-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=0934026610">Card Weaving</a> is still reasonably available. (I used to have a copy of that, too, but ended up giving it to someone who actually was able to use it.)

Owyn wrote:Thanks for the reminder on the Ecclesiastical book, had forgotten the title - and it's one that's "on my list" but not on our shelf yet. We've (wife and I) got Woven into the Earth as well, but I haven't gotten a chance to dig into it well, yet - looks great though!

Same author's got another one out, with patterns from a 16th century book of tablet-weaving patterns: <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0971896011?ie=UTF8&tag=suggestion-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=0971896011">Anna Neuper's Modelbuch: Early Sixteenth-Century Patterns for Weaving Brocaded Bands</a>.

Owyn wrote:Edit: Yeah, using inkle looms for tablet weaving isn't period; but the weaving you produce from them is, and inkles are commonly used for tablet weaving as a result because they are so easy to transport, and pick up/drop weaving as life requires. A flat loom like in the video is a period method but is often hard to transport; another is 'backstrap', or tying one end of the warp onto a fixed object and fixing the working end to yourself. I wrap it around my belt and then pin it with a tapestry needle, works great for "fast release' when I need to (twin three year olds - need I say more?).

I've found very little evidence for backstrap looms in the Middle Ages -- the only one I've collected at http://larsdatter.com/weaving.htm is this one in a 14th century Greek manuscript -- but I wonder why we don't see more re-creations of box looms? It seems to me that these are both portable and historical (at least to the later 15th century):
http://racer.kb.nl/pregvn/MIMI/MIMI_74G ... 9V_MIN.JPG
http://visualiseur.bnf.fr/ConsulterElem ... 35&Param=C
http://cartelfr.louvre.fr/cartelfr/visi ... otice=3414