Completed pavise pics pg 3/ Wattle & plank mantlet pics

[chef de chambre]

Hi All,

I thought I would share a couple of pictures of a current project, amongst the equipment we are making for our artillery piece, the crapadeau 'Petite Gabriel'. We have been working on a pair of matlet/screens, a wood planked one on wheels, and one made of wattleing. The wood planked one is wheeled, so it can be pushed forward to cover the matross who reloads while he does so, this one is static,and will have a wood prop woven to the back of it.



The mantlet is woven of green saplings, mostly beech, a little maple (we had to work with green saplings, and you will see why in the next image)



Here is a close up shot, of one of the supporting saplings. This was straight as a rod, and fully covered with bark as we began the project - there is so much tension in the weave, that the pole, which is 2" -2 1/2"- 3" thick (depending on which end you are at), has been bent and woven into the weave like the thumb-thick to 1 1/2" thick saplings, and the bark stripped with the weaving.

The mantlet is as small as we could make it with the material - the idea was for it to be 3 1/2' across, and under 6' high - it is more like 4', by 6'. The mantlet was woven upside-down, with the poles dug into the ground. It has been since flipped, filled up with thinner branches, and neatly trimmed. The force of the woven saplings spread the poles at the bottom, even though we took every precaution to prevent this (we tied a rope to the botom edge, and wove it as toight as we couild to keep the poles as close together as we could).


We tested its effectiveness against archery, up to point blank-range, and prior to the weave being filled in. Out of 30 direct hits on the mantlet, one penetrated through the weave entirely (hitting a hole in the weave, since filled), about 1/3 of the shots bounced off, and the rest stuck in the weave, to no great depth (up to 3", maximum). What would happen is the arrow would start into the weave, and the friction would seem to have slowed it to a stop rapidly, without harming the fabric of the mantlet itself. A total of 1 arrow shot actually split the narrow end of one sapling, penetrating the other side to the depth of 1".


I will try to get some more finished shots this week - the weave goes right to the bottom now, and the top is filled. This was a very interesting project to undertake. Phil, the company member who headed it, has made wattle fencing before, and some wattle panels for a post-and-beam shed, and this was far more difficult to weave, due to the closeness of the poles, and the neccessary minimum number of poles, all with the idea of being able to put it in the back of a pickup truck, or our Dodge Magnum, for transport. We have 8 hours work in the images, for 2 men, so a total of 16 man-hours at the point in the images, we have put a total of 2 more man-hours into it each since, so a total of 20 hours to the finish of the fabric. We could probably have wattled an edge or two of the garden, in the time this took, due to the looseness of weave of fencing, and the fact the height would have been half this.

[Johann Lederer]

Nice work!

[Thomas Powers]

When we wove the wattle fencing for the irish LH group I was in; I made a "wattling frame" by taking a scrap 2"x6" and nailing to it 4"x4" cross piece at the ends and then drilling holes to place the uprights in at the spacing we wanted.

We did quite a lot of wattle with this as we used it for crowd control at our big demo at the Dublin (OH) irish festival.

Unfortunately it was all recently lost in a barn fire and I am no longer there to help reproduce it.

Now I;m in NM and there is MILES of irrigation ditch being coppiced---they cut down the saplings about once a year leaving them to regrow into *PERFECT* wattle material; but the intense dryness makes wattle much more fragile once it has dried. (Single digit humidities are quite common out here and 30% is considered *swampy*)


Thomas

[Starn]

In the Napoleonic group I'm with we made a small 'petting zoo' inclosure out of woven wattle panels for the corporal's 1 and half year old, with a cape over one end as a shelter. Dead handy when people are gearing up for a battle with all the black powder, sharp bayonetts and unattended camp fires around!

[Thomas Powers]

Really handy to cover up a glaring modernity like a non removable park bench; throw a wattle panel against the back of it and it disappears from sight from in the camp.

Thomas

[Miles_H_J]

I like it, thinks for sharing it.



Miles

[Russ Mitchell]

Chef: this is great. May I make a recommendation? I've seen this done in Hungary (though they used reed, of which they have tons and used to have more before the 19c guys drained the wetlands in order to make the Great Plain)... they typically made these up almost like a double-stitch doing leather sewing, so where you have gaps, they'd have one with the exact opposite overlap between the vertical runs.

LOTS of work, works very well, may not work at all unless your stuff is super-green (reed, after all, being spectacularly-suited for this sort of thing).

[chef de chambre]

Thanks everyone for the kind words.

That is a good idea Russ, we actually have fillped in some of the gapping with vertical strips of green branch. We are leaving just enough room to weave in the wooden prop, and after that, doing a final fill of any remaining gaps

Since it just stopped raining (for a few hours, anyway) today, I went out to double-check on the mantlet, and it is holding up fine. You would need to cut through the thing with an axe, to take it apart.

I will go out and take a pic of it trimmed in its current state, and get it uploaded when Jen gets a chance.

[Russ Mitchell]

Can't wait. You're giving me an idea of something I can do with all the little crape myrtle and peach branches I'm always having to trim. Rose, too, though braiding that could get painful.

[earnest carruthers]

"We tested its effectiveness against archery, up to point blank-range, and prior to the weave being filled in. Out of 30 direct hits on the mantlet, one penetrated through the weave entirely (hitting a hole in the weave, since filled), about 1/3 of the shots bounced off, and the rest stuck in the weave, to no great depth (up to 3", maximum). What would happen is the arrow would start into the weave, and the friction would seem to have slowed it to a stop rapidly, without harming the fabric of the mantlet itself. A total of 1 arrow shot actually split the narrow end of one sapling, penetrating the other side to the depth of 1". "


Excellent, make it and test it, yep

[chef de chambre]

for the mantlet with wheels.

The wattle mantlet trimmed


A close up of the thin spots filled in now

[chef de chambre]

Here is an image of the plank screen, which will have wheels and a trail



I should have taken some pictures of it as it went together, but I got shots while limning out the ducal arms.



We based the cutouts on the somewhat larger screens (non-mobile) seen in Diebold Schilling, the images of the Burgundian army besieging Morat.



Here is a full length of the screen, it will sit 5" higher with the wheels in place, and the trail will cock it back maybe 10 degrees.

Lastly, a close up of all the fields and borders limned out - what a pain in the butt, waiting for the linseed oil based paint to dry.



The person doing the original fields put some blue over the border of France Ancient in the first quarter, and now we must wait a long bit for it to dry, to put the white check over it. He was flogged until he fainted for his error.

[chef de chambre]

While waiting for the rain to occassionaly break, to do outside projects. I have been putting together 4 small javelins - literally 'hand arrows', in the artillery accounts, quite a few of which show up in inventories of the artillery held in a castle.



The darts are almost invariably broadheads, and going by the images I have to work with, they seem to range between 4'-5' long, although some more spear-like ones show up,. over the 5' mark - with narrow spearheads instead of broadheads, usually.



The photos are taken immediately after I had headed the darts, and shouldered down the shafts - you can see the marks of the files if you look at the photo of the heads.

They are sanded and waiting fletching now, I will put up more pictures after the fletching process.

Images of these darts are found in a couple of British Library held manuscripts (a Froissart, for one, I think), as well as the Hours of Mary of Burgundy (The pursuit by death), and a nice manuscript held in the Hauge , of the story of Jason and the Argonauts - all ranging between 1470-1480.

[Russ Mitchell]

Do me a favor, Chef? I know you've got straight shafts there, but can these be tossed from the end like a dart flip? We have a couple records involving the Hungarians and Byzantines in battle where that sort of throw would have made much more sense than the standard javelin toss.

[chef de chambre]

I can give it a shot, Russ. These things were fletched as if massive arrows (I'm putting 9" of fletching on them), so I am not sure regarding how effective they would be thrown with the fletching. The images show them all being thrown overhand, like javelins.

Interestingly enough, I was going through Gaier last night, and in 1443, the comptroller of the ducal artillery recorded some 21,050 heads for 'flesche de main' in one castles stores. Also, they had a variety, I counted in the list of the type of dart/javelin weapons the following catagories 'flesch de main', 'dard', 'dard de fer', 'dards de Espagnie', and 'javelins'. Apparently, there was a variety of the weapons in use.

These were entirely seperate from arrows, arrowheads, quarrels, and artillery ammunition (as late as 1461, we have record of Burgundian artillerists employing arrow-like projectiles in cannons - like a sabot round, all metal, apparently, and with two sets of fins per projectile, one set of three to the rear, one set of three to the middle.)

Here I am trying to post an image from that 1470 Jason manuscript, hopefully, it is small enough to attatch. (attatchment too big, of course, I will try re-sizing later.)

[chef de chambre]

Well, I just went out and tried the dart toss with two unfletched, mostly from holding the tail end, with a few tries that would not have been done, holding from the head. I am in process of fletching but have none complete so far, so I cannot try a fletched example yet.

The longest range is 20 yards. They lose stability tossing that way, and wobble off to one side. So, the range is a little longer than normal throwing, but the accuracy drops off a fair bit. Mostly, you see these things being tossed from castle walls, and crows nests of ships, and they work well in that regard. You could also use them hunting on horseback, with reasonable success against middleing sized game, I would think.

ETA, you can toss them in a nice arc that way though, so you could toss over an obstical, or somebodys head.

[Russ Mitchell]

Okay, that makes sense. With the heads so light and the shaft not tapered, I shouldn't have expected better. Thanks for the test -- all of this stuff (including, sadly, archery practice -- after two bad shoots, I have to admit I've completely regressed to duffer status) is completely out of the cards in my overcrowded suburban digs.

[audax]

Do me a favor, Chef? I know you've got straight shafts there, but can these be tossed from the end like a dart flip? We have a couple records involving the Hungarians and Byzantines in battle where that sort of throw would have made much more sense than the standard javelin toss.

Do you think maybe they were more like plumbatae?

[Jehan de Pelham]

Russ, you were demonstrating the hand throw technique at CiT 2008--is that what you are suggesting? Bob, did they use any throwing equipment like an atlatl or a strap, or did they just hurl them by hand.

John
Jehan de Pelham, ecuyer and servant of Sir Vitus
www.mron.org

[Russ Mitchell]

Arrow throwing was a known sport, and could have been used for a javelin, certainly. I was actually referring to what you could call the "by the point" dart throw. With a heavy-tipped javelin on a tapered shaft (the tapered shaft is real important, b/c it tends to fall better), you can basically turn an arrow or javelin into a big old lawn dart.

I've not tried the arrow-throwing technique with a heavier javelin, tho, and the hold tends to be pretty peculiar -- I don't recall ever seeing it in a medieval manuscript.

[chef de chambre]

Russ, you were demonstrating the hand throw technique at CiT 2008--is that what you are suggesting? Bob, did they use any throwing equipment like an atlatl or a strap, or did they just hurl them by hand.

John
Jehan de Pelham, ecuyer and servant of Sir Vitus
www.mron.org

All the images in Western European sources show them throwing the various darts/javelins by hand in an overhand throw technique - usually, but not always, from a height - some throws are shown thrown up (possibly an intended return thrust, as the image of the man is on a scaling ladder), some horizontally (usually, in scenes of the personification of death persuing people).

We will generally have them about camp, as "artillery" equipment, and for competative tossing for fun, but in a show on Medieval hunting and animals, being organized by the Higgins, they will be a part of hunting equipment, and we will be casting them from a moving horse, at fallow deer targets.

I was recently reading - it may have been in Clif's book, about French sources stating javelin/dart throwing, as a regular aspect of training for squires and men at arms.

I will try the point throw once they are fletched, Russ, but given the size and shape of the broadhead, holding by the head is awkward - when sharpened, I am not sure it could be done without serious risk to the throwers hand.

Two fletched (glued, needing the wrapped binding), two to go, and then a coat of oil on the shaft, and wax over the shaft and bindings at the fletching, when fletching is completed.

[chef de chambre]

I went and trimmed the two sets fletched, and I have to re-do the job. I have never fletched before, and the jig is mismarked. I am in process of fixing the two now, but I did trim them ill-fletched, and experimented throwing before the fix.

The fletching improved accuracy in the horizontal toss, and the throw from a height - it made no improvement to range, but a novice can hit what they are throwing at, by in large - I almost killed a chipmunk on the fly with one, thrown down from the back porch.

9 times out of ten, throwing down from a height of 20', you hit what you aim at, out to, say a maximum of 15 yards from the base of the height you are throwing at. The force of impact has been increased by adding the fletching, and a vertical throw downward burys the head completely, and a few inches of the shaft. A horizontal throw, you hit roughly what you are aiming at, 7 or 8 times out of 10, and it strikes the ground with enough force to bury the head itself.

The dart "toss", with the size of the fletchings (based directly off the Jason manuscript), makes the dart toss impossible, with a dart of this length. It was do-able to a degree without the fletching, with the fletching, it just does not work properly. You can do it with an arrow, which is a foot less in length, and with a properly tapered shaft.

I am sure that they would be effective, thrown at a game animal from a moving horse. I am certain they could wound or kill an unarmoured man, with a throw from a height, but the more armoured the target, the less usefull they would be. I would think you would instinctively flinch from one thrown at you with intent, even fully armoured. You could kill or wound a footsoldier, no doubt, with a well-aimed or lucky throw.

[Russ Mitchell]

Do me a favor, Chef? I know you've got straight shafts there, but can these be tossed from the end like a dart flip? We have a couple records involving the Hungarians and Byzantines in battle where that sort of throw would have made much more sense than the standard javelin toss.

Do you think maybe they were more like plumbatae?

Sorry, Audax, missed your post. I honestly don't know. This is something that's coming purely from experimental observation, since we've got literary references for javelin use, but no surviving images (and some authors describing very heavy arrowheads and javelin heads, and some not).

[Russ Mitchell]

Oh, and so far as I know, Chef, you wouldn't have held the arrowhead anyway, thrown in that style, but the back end. I'm guessing per your fletched experiment, that it wasn't useful that way.

(With fletchings and for use in siege makes perfect sense. As anybody who's ever been in a javelin-fight with his buddies knows, they're easy to pick out of the air if you see them coming, but even a mild elevation difference confers a clear advantage).

[chef de chambre]

Oh, and so far as I know, Chef, you wouldn't have held the arrowhead anyway, thrown in that style, but the back end. I'm guessing per your fletched experiment, that it wasn't useful that way.

(With fletchings and for use in siege makes perfect sense. As anybody who's ever been in a javelin-fight with his buddies knows, they're easy to pick out of the air if you see them coming, but even a mild elevation difference confers a clear advantage).

Yeah, 'tossing' I tried the fletched end mostly, only the arrow end a couple of times, to my fingers rue.

I am curious about the 'Flech de main de fer' - they would have weighed quite a bit more, and I would imagine they would have been shorter, but I have seen no images, and know of no extant specimens (although there are some big broadheads that very well may be 'flesch de main' heads instead of intended for shooting from bows).

Also, the dard d'Espagnie - I am looking for some good 15th century Spanish images with fletched javelins, and I am going to pick up a couple of slender spearheads and make up some for experimenting with.

One of the guys has a couple of hurlbats, but I have never thrown them, and I don't know if he has - same sort of idea, except causing a mess in a calvary melee. I think those are more up your neck of the woods in study, being an Eastern/Central European sort of thing.

[Russ Mitchell]

Yep. I've even got my theoretical membership in the Hurlbat League of America set up once I could afford to pick up a few. Those and hajitotuske (a hurlbat that's all spikes) are heavy-infantry weapons, and used for precisely that purpose -- mess people up while holding your ground at tight quarters.

[Russ Mitchell]

(just in case it's unclear, no, we don't throw live javelins at each other. Mostly. We have played "javelin toss" like tossing 'round a baseball a few times, but mostly it's weighted rawhide-fronted stuff.)

[Fire Stryker]

Just one of the images of the "hand dart" that Bob is using as a reference.

[chef de chambre]

He is in process of menacing a Dryad with it, I assume, or a woman conjoined at the hip with a tree, wearing an odd 'hat' (no normal henin, wimple & veil, or any such thing, a cloth with a board under it, it looks like).

[Fire Stryker]

[Russ Mitchell]

And that hand position is completely incompatible with having any string assist for the throw as well. That's your el-basic javelin-toss positon (the rear position, which I hate and suck with -- I far prefer the direct-line hand-forward position, with which I"m about nine times as accurate).

[SirAngus]

Good job Bob! That stuff looks great! Let me know if you guys need any help with that Higgins equestrian demo. I'd love to see the tack you guys have put together

[chef de chambre]

Good job Bob! That stuff looks great! Let me know if you guys need any help with that Higgins equestrian demo. I'd love to see the tack you guys have put together

Hi Jeremy,

Well, you confused me with your post, but I see what you are responding to.

There are currently no equestrian programs at the Higgins, although we have closely explored the possibility, and came close to at least bringing horses on property for some proposed programs. There isn't much that can currently be accomplished with horses on-site.

The primary factor preventing such a display is the property itself, which is unsuitable for actual equestrian activities - they own a good bit of land, but it is mountains of uncleared rubble of buildings of the old Worcester Pressed Steel company, covered by 45 years growth of weeds. They intended at some point to revamp the property, but the current economy has halted all such plans.

All equestrian activity to date has been filmed off property, and incorporated into WPI film projects for the Museum audio-video theater.

Bit have, are being specially made, and bridles are next on the agenda, along with a riding saddle, the stuff will be posted as projects progress.

[earnest carruthers]

Beauchamp pageant shows darts being used from a ship.

[chef de chambre]

The arms are further limned out, Burgundy is complete, the various lions of Flanders and Luxembourg are roughed in, awaiting detailing.


A close up shot, the lions still need detailing, but the next step is painting in the powdered fleur de lys, and the last lion, after that dries, then going in to pick out the last details.



I've glued and cut the fletching, but it still needs to be bound, and I need to oil the shafts to finish them, and probably, I will wax the binding of the fletching, to add one more level of security



A closr-up shot, don't laugh, I have never fletched anything before in my life. I was lucky to align the feathers properly, the jigs markings are less than helpful.

I am pretty certain I could increase preformance, if I replaced the crappy Hanewaii broadheads, with real ones. I might contact Hector Cole, or someone like that, to make me up another six heads, but decent.