The Armour Archive

Over the last year and a half I've slowly transitioned to the Dark Side of the Forceâ„¢ and become one with the 14th century. That being said, I'm having a problem with my underpants.

Waiiiiiiiiiiit, that didn't sound right.

Not a problem, per se, but I'm having an issue with wrapping my mind around why they transitioned into making clothing the style that they did in Europe. Am I correct in assuming that prior to the invention of the chausses/braies combination that they had a regular one piece trouser? Well, why would they go to a two piece tie together pain-in-the-rear contraption? Yes, I realize that braies are a direct undergarment while the chausses are the "pants" aspect of this equation but was it strictly used as a style change or am I simply not grasping some fundamental here?

On to garters. I'm pretty sure if ten years ago someone told me I'd be inquiring about wearing garters I'd have punched them in their ear as I'd have had no clue what they were and did not know they'd had anything to do with mens medieval attire. Now that I am a bit more (and I do mean bit) enlightened on the subject I wonder what the time frame is on their use? Their heyday? I've also seen them worn single leg, over a greave while armoured up -- is this simply an Order of the Garter thing?
What materials are garters made of? I've seen knitted wool. What about leather? Show me your garters!

Oh my.

Lucian Ro wrote:Well, why would they go to a two piece tie together pain-in-the-rear contraption?

That's an interesting question.

Let's approach this from a medieval hygiene perspective, shall we?

We've discussed (elsewhere, I think) that wool garments were not washed regularly; dirt would be brushed off, and it's all fine-and-dandy.

Linen, on the other hand, can be washed regularly, and can even be bleached to restore a look of cleanliness. (See http://www.larsdatter.com/laundry.htm for some images of laundries and clothes-laundering; notice that they're almost always shown as washing white cloth, presumably white linen garments and/or household linens.)

I shall leave the status of the cleanliness of the medieval bottom to your imagination ... but I suspect that they did not exactly sparkle in the manner of these new-fangled vampires.

So, then, I think that this separate breeches-and-hose combination evolves out of practicality. You have one linen garment (worn near one's dirty bits) that can be cleaned easily, with separate wool hose (and all of the practicality that wool hose afford, which again, discussed elsewhere here, I think).

There's a cute bit about this in the Canterbury Tales, FWIW: "Thou woldest make me kisse thyn olde breech, / And swere it were a relyk of a seint, / Though it were with thy fundement depeint."

Lucian Ro wrote:Now that I am a bit more (and I do mean bit) enlightened on the subject I wonder what the time frame is on their use? Their heyday? I've also seen them worn single leg, over a greave while armoured up -- is this simply an Order of the Garter thing?

Yep. (Although it could, conceivably, have been done if a garter was given as a token or favour or something like that.)

I'd started a linkspage on this subject at http://larsdatter.com/garters.htm -- but as you can see, didn't really get too far. There really doesn't seem to be a "heyday," per se, but there are a few scattered examples.

Lucian Ro wrote:What materials are garters made of?

The knit examples are (IIRC) 16th century. I seem to recall hearing about leather and/or woven examples (as on a band loom or tablet-weaving loom) and I want to say those are in <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1843833514?ie=UTF8&tag=suggestion-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=1843833514">Dress Accessories</a>.

I think hosen become so fashionable when cavalry became more popular.

Looking at the books on Roman axillary and late Roman fashion that Osprey put out there are lots of examples of the cav using short pants and leg wraps or leggings in the later era. German groups in particular used this fashion. It seems to me that hosen took over post conquest when the cav became the most important part of military.

wear a hole and a knee and throw a pr of pants away, wear a hole in the knee of chausses and toss one leg.

Lucian Ro wrote:That being said, I'm having a problem with my underpants.

Oh dear.

I wonder what the time frame is on their use? Their heyday? I've also seen them worn single leg, over a greave while armoured up -- is this simply an Order of the Garter thing?
What materials are garters made of? I've seen knitted wool. What about leather? Show me your garters!

I don't really know when they came into use, but I know that when hosen were still rather baggy and separated, garters appear more on both legs of men in the artwork of the time. So for 14thc purposes, I'd say they'd be quite common from the beginning of the century with a gradual tapering off as the century progresses, at least among the highest classes, where the hosen technology seems to have progressed to the point of well-fitted stretchiness as well as multi-point attachment at the top. One continues to see poor folks portrayed with split, baggy hosen, often rolled down to the knees, whether laboring or begging, or the like. I will note that I have one male outfit of my own and I found that I was able to roll my hosen down to my knee and they didn't fall down -- even without garters, but that could be the success I had with fitting my own hosen to my legs. When I wear female hosen (glorified knee socks), I have to wear garters. Alas, no photos of me scandalously showing my hosen. They stay tucked away under long dresses for the most part.

As for material, I like to use a well-fulled wool that I cut into strips, about 2 feet long and about 1.5 inches wide and then I simply tie a bow or a slip knot. The Museum of London finds were woven to include these awesome tiny dagges, but the artwork shows plenty that are plain, straight strips of something or other.

I haven't looked into the leather kind that require a buckle. As for knitted garters... maybe iffy...?

Easy solution: use fulled wool. ("Fulled" wool is wool that's been washed and dried in heat so it shrinks up and the fibers meld together a bit like felt.) You don't need to hem it and it lasts forever and is comfortable.

-T

I've done some tablet weaving with silk threads that would probably be perfect for garters... My first silk tabletweave was about 1/3 of an inch across when it was done, 25 cards of VERY thin silk with a nice pattern. Hadn't thought of that before...

The good news about braes and chausses is that you get used to them pretty quick, Lucian. They're pretty comfy once you get over how different they are from what you're used to wearing, and the compliments you get for looking "so period" are a nice fringe benefit too.

Can't recommend Historic Enterprises enough for this stuff, btw.

Can't recommend Historic Enterprises enough for this stuff, btw - even if you plan to make your own, getting a set from them to use for patterning is not a bad idea.

I'm glad you like the stuff Owyn, but please don't recommend people buy clothing to use as a pattern- that's just not nice.

These are my patterns that I worked hard to develop. Selling clothing made from my patterns is my job, the job that feeds my horses and keeps a roof over our heads. Pirating my patterns deprives me of my income.

There are so many people selling patterns these days that pirating patterns from purchased garments has to be nearly obsolete. If you need a pattern, have a chat with brewer- I'm sure Reconstructing History probably has them, and if you buy a pattern from them, you get contribute to feeding their kids and keeping a roof over their head. Much better ju-ju all the way around, don't cha think?

Thanks!

Gwen

Sorry, Gwen - hadn't meant to offend, was trying to send business your way, not encourage problems. Every pair of chausses I own are from your shop.

I know you meant no harm Owyn, which is why I was trying not to be a jerk in my response. Pirating patterns isn't something people think about, and threads like these allow vendors like me to speak up about it.

So no harm, no foul, OK?

Gwen

I'll make it up to you with another order soon as finances allow, OK?