The Armour Archive

Posted: **Tue Jul 13, 2010 9:54 am**

I received my AoA at Crown a few months back and I was asked by the Crown to register my heraldry.
But then it dawned on me; don't you have to register your name first and have it approved?
Don't laugh, it's something that, well, I never worried about because I liked my name and didn't feel the need to go through the heraldic headache that entails registering. Now that I'm older and wiser, ahem, I've decided to pursue it.
How can I research this and who can I talk to, preferably online as I won't be making many events in the next few months?
I'm 14th century English so I'm pretty sure my surname would have to be changed to Roe but I'm not positive.

Kind of lost when it comes to all this.

Posted: **Tue Jul 13, 2010 10:10 am**

You can submit name and device heraldry at the same time. If name fails and device passes, you will be given a holding name until you resubmit a name correction... which is best done immediately.

If name passes and device fails, you correct and resubmit your heraldry

Posted: **Tue Jul 13, 2010 11:04 am**

You can always "register" a use-name/holding name, such as Lucian of MyHomeGroup or MyHomeKingdom, submit the heraldry with it, and then worry about name and documentation later on.

On the other hand, a search of the UK National Archives shows a document that could theoretically be obtained from 1375-1376 for one William Ro: http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/cata ... ssmethod=5

You'd have to see the full thing to verify spelling and that it wasn't a lazy scribe talking about William Robert.

There's also a document from 1290 for a John le Ro: http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/cata ... D=-4619914

Roger le Ro, 1323: http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/cata ... 15#summary

Posted: **Tue Jul 13, 2010 11:18 am**

Are you coming to the Norrie Academy this weekend in West Palm Beach? There should be Heralds everywhere to help you registering both.

Posted: **Tue Jul 13, 2010 2:53 pm**

Add to Saritor's dox for "Ro":

Lucien - dated to 1292 (Census of Paris) [linky]

It's a slightly different spelling, but that'll do for a start (the linked page is considered dox you don't have to photocopy).

Name appears clear of conflict.

Boom. There ya go. Submit "Lucien Ro" or "Lucien le Ro". Wanna work on good medieval armory now? :mrgreen:

Bob (an EK herald known as Fairfax)

EDITED TO ADD: If you're going to Pennsic, avail yourself of the assistance of the fine folks at Herald's Point. Awesome resource.

Posted: **Tue Jul 13, 2010 9:06 pm**

Lucian Ro wrote:How can I research this and who can I talk to, preferably online as I won't be making many events in the next few months?

I'd start by emailing your local herald, whose address can be found here: http://sites.google.com/site/wyvernwood ... officers-1

Sometimes local heralds aren't book heralds, in which case email a senior Kingdom herald: http://www.trimaris.org/index.php?q=herald

I'm 14th century English so I'm pretty sure my surname would have to be changed to Roe but I'm not positive.

I would agree that if you wanted the most authentic spelling for 14th century England (or later), Roe would probably be it.

Lucian le Ro or Lucian Ro would be an earlier form - c.12th century.

Your name shouldn't be too hard to document. Whichever herald you ask to help should look in Withycombe for Lucian and Reaney & Wilson for Ro/Roe. My internet searches indicate the documentation is there, but I don't have the books to hand to confirm.

Withycombe and R&W are the two most common name books in the SCA so the herald should have a copy or knows someone with a copy.

Posted: **Tue Jul 13, 2010 9:08 pm**

Add these for the "Ro" portion too...

Oxford Dictionary of English Surnames by Reaney & Wilson - a common book in almost any research herald's library:

Reginald le Ro - 1188 - referenced from a Suffolk manuscript
Benedict le Roo - 1270 - Pipe Rolls Essex
Isolda Ro - 1314 - Wakefield

He references it that it's a more common southern and midland variant, with Rae and Ray being found more in the north.

I second Brewer's opinion that it looks clear of conflict. There's seven Lucian's right now, but none are close to "Ro".

Posted: **Tue Jul 13, 2010 9:11 pm**

I'm a huge slacker who lacks access to R&W or Withycombe, so I generally use alternate sources more conveniently searchable from the internet. :oops:

Posted: **Wed Jul 14, 2010 9:23 am**

Griffin de Stockport wrote:Add these for the "Ro" portion too...

Oxford Dictionary of English Surnames by Reaney & Wilson - a common book in almost any research herald's library:

Reginald le Ro - 1188 - referenced from a Suffolk manuscript
Benedict le Roo - 1270 - Pipe Rolls Essex
Isolda Ro - 1314 - Wakefield

Under Lucian, Reaney and Wilson have the Latin form Lucianus as a given name in 1212, and the spelling Lucian as a surname c. 1265. This supports Lucian as a spelling of the English given name.

Lucian Ro looks like a very nice English name!

Ursula Georges.

Posted: **Wed Jul 14, 2010 10:16 am**

And at the moment appears to not be taken by someone else (per a quick search of the SCA O&A, online at oanda.sca.org ).

I'd say make haste and get that bad boy in.

Posted: **Wed Jul 14, 2010 10:34 am**

I'm submitting paperwork on it tomorrow for my use as an alternate name.

Posted: **Wed Jul 14, 2010 8:38 pm**

Lol, wow, thank you all for all the input.

Saritor, don't make me come mess with Texas. :wink:

Posted: **Thu Jul 15, 2010 12:53 pm**

you can always submit your heraldry with your mundane name
the sca can not force you to take an alias

Posted: **Thu Jul 15, 2010 1:52 pm**

Gilebert wrote:You can submit name and device heraldry at the same time. If name fails and device passes, you will be given a holding name until you resubmit a name correction... which is best done immediately.

This happened to me. It is a painless process.

Posted: **Thu Jul 15, 2010 1:57 pm**

zippy wrote:you can always submit your heraldry with your mundane name
the sca can not force you to take an alias

Yes and no. The legal name clause is not there to allow people to register their entire modern name. The clause permits registration of elements of the legal name. You still need to submit with the spirit of 'medievality'.

For example, if you have the legal given name "Boyd" and try to use the clause to register "Boyd the Wanderer", it'll bounce. Invoking the legal name clause is automatically a Weirdness; as bynames like "the wanderer" are officially merely an SCA-compatible practice, they're also a Weirdness. Two Weirdnesses = Insta-boing.

It is distasteful to register your full modern, legal name, though I suppose it's permissible under the RfS.

Bob

Posted: **Thu Jul 15, 2010 2:04 pm**

brewer wrote:It is distasteful to register your full modern, legal name, though I suppose it's permissible under the RfS.

AFAIK, you have to have a difference in some kind to distinguish between your legal identity and that of your SCA identity under the RfS.

There's a section that uses, I think, Aaron Miller vs Aaron the Miller for illustration.

Posted: **Thu Jul 15, 2010 2:16 pm**

If there is, I can find it in neither the RfS nor the Precedents. Believe me, I looked.

Bob

Posted: **Thu Jul 15, 2010 2:48 pm**

Sorry...Administrative Handbook, III.A.10:

10. Name Used by the Submitter Outside the Society - No name will be registered to a submitter if it is identical to a name used by the submitter for purposes of identification outside of a Society context. This includes legal names, common use names, trademarks, and other items registered with mundane authorities that serve to identify an individual or group. This restriction applies to Society branches as well as individuals. Thus, a branch cannot use the name of a significant location (a town or county, for example) within its borders. This restriction is intended to help preserve a distinction between a submitter's identity within the Society and the submitter's identity outside of the Society.

A small change in the name is sufficient for registration, such as the addition of a syllable or a spelling change that changes the pronunciation. However, a change to spelling without a change in pronunciation is not sufficient. For example, Alan Miller could not register the name Alan Miller or Allan Miller but he could register the name Alan the Miller. Further, submitters may register either a name or armory which is a close variant of a name or insignia they use outside the Society, but not both.

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Heraldry - creation and submission help

Heraldry - creation and submission help

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