How to check for conflicts in heraldry

[Tomburr]

I've been toying with the idea of registering my heraldry, but since it seems fairly generic in design I wanted to see about checking for conflicts before wasting a herald's time.

Thing is, I have no idea how to go about doing this. Can somebody please explain the procedure?

[Baron Alcyoneus]

You ask the herald to check for you. They are supposed to do that so that they don't waste other herald's time when it gets further up the herald food chain for commentary.

[brewer]

I've been a herald for ten years.

I still suck at conflict.

Give me the blazon, and I'll see if I can't pull in a favor or two and get some people to give it a go.

Cheers,

Bob

[Tomburr]

I've been a herald for ten years.

I still suck at conflict.

Give me the blazon, and I'll see if I can't pull in a favor or two and get some people to give it a go.

Cheers,

Bob

I would greatly appreciate that. The blazon is my avatar image. Unfortunately, I no longer speak herald. Its been too long since I had to use it.

I've been away from the SCA for a little while now, so I'm not even sure who to talk to locally. That's another reason I wanted to check.

[Effingham]

Paen, on a chevron gules, fimbriated Or, three lions rampant Or.

[kfinna]

There's a nice page on conflict checking in the SCA hosted here:

http://www.antirheralds.org/education/b ... cking.html

Four-page PDF on same:

http://www.willadsenfamily.org/sca/hera ... nllian.pdf

Modar has a list of links on the subject here:

http://www.modaruniversity.org/Heraldry2.htm#Conflict

For myself, I must admit that I cheat a bit. I have a program on my computer (this one: http://www.goldenstag.net/OandA/index.htm ) that I use for quick, slapdash conflict checks. I'm not familiar enough with the search forms for the online Ordinary and Armorial to check more than very simple devices. (Thus, most things I check I then have checked again by someone else. )

[Gethin]

Eff,
What is "Paen"? Is it another way of saying semi-de-lys? I am assuming that the small gold items are fluer-de-lys.
Thanks!

[Domhnall na Moicheirghe]

What is "Paen"? Is it another way of saying semi-de-lys? I am assuming that the small gold items are fluer-de-lys.

"Paen" is a typo for Pean, which is a "fur" of a sable (black) field strewn with Or (gold) ermine spots.

This is quite a complex device that is tricky to conflict check, so perhaps not the best one to start with as a beginning conflict checker. The links suggested above are good guides to learning the skill and there are a number of other guides out there on the Net too.

I have done a brief check myself and found no glaring conflicts, so you won't be wasting time getting a good device herald to do a thorough check for you.

[brewer]

Okay, I'll get some heralds I know to have a goosie. I'll get back to you.

Bob

[Eirik]

We Herald types have a Yahoo group, wherein reside the greatest conflict checkers in the Knowne World, imho. Get with your local Herald, or a Herald at large and they will guide you through the process.


Oh, and thanks for the links! I don't think I had any of them

[Jestyr]

SCA Search Forms for the SCA Armorial
http://oanda.sca.org/

[brewer]

Just got this back from our Kingdom's Heraldic Education person. Play along with me!

---- <ekheralds> wrote:

>>
>> Can someone who actually knows what they're doing conflict check
>> something for me?
>>
>> Pean, on a chevron gules fimbriated or three lions rampant or.


Aha! A perfect educational opportunity.

One always starts a conflict check with the primary charge: in the case, the chevron.

Go to the Index of the SCA Ordinary: http://oanda.sca.org/ordinary/index.html

Go through the options until you get to Chevron - charged - plain line - Gules: http://oanda.sca.orgoanda_desc.cgi?p=CH ... harged%3a1

Compare what you find under this heading with your proposed armory, with a copy of Section X of the Rules for Submissions in your hands.

I'm seeing nothing on this page that presents a conflict.

Now, I want to check uncharged red chevrons as well because "Pean, a chevron gules fimbriated Or" would conflict with the proposed device. So I go here: http://oanda.sca.org/oanda_desc.cgi?p=C ... harged%3a1

In doing so I find this: James of Kent (November 1982 via the West):
Pean, a chevron gules, surmounted by a mace argent.

Is this a conflict? I turn to Section X of the RfS.

X.1 says: "Addition of Primary Charges. - Armory does not conflict with any protected armory that adds or removes the primary charge group."

Is the mace in James's device a primary charge? "Surmounted" is one of those awful early blazoning words that tells us nothing about the size or visual weight of the object. Fortunately, if we really need to, we can ask Ragged Staff, the keeper of the archives, to pull the image of James's device.

Let's assume for the moment that the mace is a secondary charge and that it's sitting in the upper part of the shield issuing from the point of the chevron. That's how I read "surmounting" anyway.

I turn now to X.4 - this is the "two CDs" rule.

X.4.a is no help: There's no CD for the field - they are both pean.
X.4.b however, is very helpful - to get to our proposed armory, we have to remove the mace from James's device. That's one CD right there.

Go all the way down to X.4.1 - addition of charges on charges. Our device adds lions on the chevron. James's device doesn't have anything on the chevron. That's our needed second CD. So our proposed device is clear of James's device.

[end quote]

There may be others, because there are many more permutations. For example, your device will conflict with Pean, on a chevron azure fimbriated or three lions rampant or (only one CD, for the color of the chevron), should that device be registered.

Conflict checking is tedious and irritating. That's why I try to pass them off on people who actually enjoy it!

Regards,

Bob