The Armour Archive

so a close friend of mine recently recieved an award here at a local event.
its an award (crescent sword) Awarded for superior skill and appearance in armored combat.
not this is great. im very happy he recieved some kind of recognition as he had been in the sca for 19 years withought even a nod but...
he has been out of the loop so to speak for the past 10 years showing up at maybe three events in that time. except for three years ago i had him going to maybe 3-4 events that year. now his kit is nice but if he's never wearing it how is that showing superior apearance in combat?
then he again lost interest. which is fine.
but it seems that one or maybe a couple locals have decided that if this guy were given some kind of award he would participate more.
knowing the guy as well as i do this is simply not the case.
not to mention he has only been to 1 event in the last 2 years, his fighting skill in really not all that up to par and his gear is all dissasembled in a huge pile in my garage i kind of see this as deserving recognition. maybe a service award for past service but this one just seems so out of place.
anybody else see this kind of thing happen?
i know plenty of people more deserving of recognition who go un noticed.
or is it simply a case of somebody wrote in for him?
is there really no checking on awards or does the crown simply take the writers word for it?

Heath B fraychef wrote:i know plenty of people more deserving of recognition who go un noticed.

Write recommendations. The vast majority of recommendations the Crown gets are from Barons/Baronesses or Shire Seneschals, but any of us can recommend anyone for anything, and the Crown (at least the Kings & Queens I have known personally over the years) will take recommendations from anybody seriously (avoid recommending yourself or your spouse). The Crown cannot keep track of everybody in the Kingdom personally, so they are often dependent on the recommendations they get to know who is deserving. And, yes, sometimes someone who is not really all that deserving gets recommended and the Crown, not knowing any better, gives them the award. Sometimes, even if the Crown does know better, they'll still give someone an award strictly to keep a good relationship with the Baron/Baroness who recommended them. Sometimes, the "bar" for a given award goes up or down over time. Life goes on.

I know of a fellow who put a lot of work into a small, far-flung shire, the sort of place that went years without seeing a crown, peers, anybody. This guy recruited, tried to get people to maintain offices, help them travel and get geared up, etc.

I wrote him in for a service award, especially after hearing how he felt most of his efforts were in vain. He felt used, worn out and deeply hurt.

He got that award to thunderous applause, and it really touched him to know that someone recommended him, and that the crowd really approved.

A month later, he quit the game entirely.
I did the right thing and he deserved that award, but my motivation for writing the recommendation was to keep him invested in the game. Award = right, my motives for recommendation = wrong.

Awards are our way of saying we see your work, love having you around and trust you with higher responsibilities.
They should never be used as a carrot.
Too many people have left this game because regalia has been dangled in their faces, used to manipulate people or given for the wrong reasons.

If someone is going to quit the game over lack of awards, let them go. We don't want them. We want people who love the game itself and all you can do in the game, not ladder-climbers and sycophants.
The game has enough of that as is.

On the flip side, no one should offer awards as doggie-treats or write recommendations to manipulate behavior. That disrespects other recipients of that award, past and future.

Opinion Starts:

Awards should be given in recognition for past performance rather than in anticipation of future performance.

:Opinion Ends

One piece of advice I got on my vigil---don't stop what you are doing.

One piece I give to people who feel "passed over": do stuff cause you love to do it, not to get an award, have fun, enjoy the SCA---living well is the best revenge!

As with participation in any society, some people will respond to such incentives as rewards and it will fan their fires. Personally, I'm the sort of person who, even after doing work deserving of recognition, will feel equally indebted to those who recognize me for my work and continue to strive for them. I know many people who are not like this, as well. It varies and there should be no blame in either perspective, as far as I see things.

If you know someone you want to participate more and feel they may be responsive to recognition, that may be the way to go. It will certainly not be a guarantee of continued performance or even participation, though... There have been a variety of studies conducted concerning how people in the work place respond to recognition in various forms, such as bonuses, raises, and promotions of various sorts. It's interesting to see how different cultures respond more positively to different forms of incentive. I recall that in Germany and Japan, peer-recognition was by far the ideal, while in America work ethic was motivated by personal promotion. No other details come to mind from the most recent study I saw of the sort.

Based on the huge incentive-base created by awards and ranks among the peerage in the SCA, I assume that this form of recognition is probably highly motivating to the general populace in the game. Using it to push people to do greater things in any circumstance should not be recoiled from - on the contrary, that's why the awards are there. Giving them shows appreciation for work done and continued hope for the best from those who become recognized in their own right. The contributions of all members are valuable, and if some are noteworthy then they may well be award-worthy.

-Gerhard

One of the longest running SCA jokes is that if you want to get someone to stop playing just give them a knighthood.

armorbug wrote:One of the longest running SCA jokes is that if you want to get someone to stop playing just give them a knighthood.

I've heard that joke myself and seen it in action. It seems that when people are close to a goal and know it (goal being an award or recognition) they work harder at it. Some times they work so hard that they neglect other things like jobs, family, finances, personal health, etc. It's unsustainable and after reaching the goal they then have to fall back and re-balance their lives.

Personally I don't see a problem with awards being a 'carrot'. I call it the 'Ding' factor based off a number of MMRPG style games. Awards have no intrinsic value in themselves and generally neither do titles. Many 'titles' have sliding scales of importance. You can be in a room with a knight, a duchess, a court-barron and a newbie and at the same time be in a room with a truck driver, a waitress, a computer programer and a lawyer. You can play at saying "Sir" and "Milady" but at the end of the day we all get in a car and drive home.

Regular incremental goals provide motivation because our brains are wired to be motivated by positive reinforcement. It's nice to be with people who "play the game for the sale of the game" but those people are usually at a comfortable level and not trying to push their limits. How many office workers do you know who push paper for the sake of the customer and don't really care about getting a raise at the end of the year. Yes they exist, but there aren't many of them and none of them get spontaneously promoted to the head of a department for providing continuously average output.

To the original post: In all liklihood this guy was going to burn out whether he got the award or not. He was a go-getter, a do-er and someone who focuses his activities to affect change. That can be very trying and detrimental to other things. If the award had come earlier it might have kept him around a little longer but it wouldn't have helped with the damage to 'real life' things like checkbook and car mileage. He would have needed to step back sooner or later anyway... But if the award had come earlier he might have been happier and feel more fulfilled about what he was doing as he approached burn-out. Then he could have left with more happy thoughts and a desire to return once real life stabilized. Without any form of 'thanks' (and it doesn't have to be formal parchment thanks as much as the people around him appreciating him) he probably left feeling dejected.

And I'm not saying that local people didn't thank him personally or that all thanks should come in the form of awards/titles. I'm saying that it is ONE form of positive reinforcement that people are drawn to and can be used to make peoples stay in the SCA more enjoyable... and should be used as such.

Sean

There is also the issue of the completely "goal oriented" person. They get into the game, see a goal, attain said goal...then what? They have no reason to stay in the game now that they have attained their goal, as the game was just a construct where the goal existed. They move on.

I have seen plenty of bad reasons to give awards, and I've seen plenty of good reasons that went astray. I would much rather see someone deserving be recognized, only to have them drop for some reason, than to give a cookie to someone as some sort of lure.

Blaine de Navarre says:

Write recommendations. The vast majority of recommendations the Crown gets are from Barons/Baronesses or Shire Seneschals

I absolutely agree with the first part. Write reccomendations. The second part obviously differs by kingdom becasue the vast majority here do not come from those two groups.

It's impossible for the Crown to know everyone who they get a reccomendation for. How much checking they do depends on the Crown but it's hard to do much in a group you don't have contacts in, especially if it's small, without arousing interest. You have to ask someone who you can trust their opinion and discretion. If you ask too many people word will get out and then if you decide against it, feelings are hurt. I've heard the solution of "Just ask the local peers". That works, if there are local peers and they are familiar with the person. We try really hard to pay attention and have given awards that there were no reccomendations for. But as Crown you are very busy at events so even then you miss some. Depending where you live the Crown may not have that power. The awards system is far from perfect but if you take the time to write in those who are "far more derserving" you can help correct that.

Petranella
Queen of Northshield

Hey Heath,

I have been lucky enough to have been King of AnTir once and Prince of Avacal 5 times. I can offer that for myself and the lady i was ruling with you sometimes have to go on the recomendations of others. You never can know everyone that you are giving an award to. In your case the award given may have been given because "someone wrote in". Don't sweat it and do as others here have suggested - write in with your own award recomendations - they are like gold to your King and Queen. This echoes what HRM Petranella stated - sometimes people get missed.

I have also been lucky enough to have been admitted into all three SCA peerages. Focus on doing your own thing and don't worry about others. You can get bogged down trying to rationalize why everyone is given a certain award. Keep supporting those who do serve your Kingdom (Principality/Barony/Shire whatever) and keep supporting it yourself. In the end you can only change/control your own actions.

In my experience, I was nudged into writing two people in for awards. One person I wrote for, was for consideration of the Order of the Laurel. This person was already a member of the order of the maunche (East Kingdom) and teaches regularly at multiple events and has been VERY active for over 25 years. This person is also a "go to" person on their area of expertise. My request was sent on to the Order and the person was not considered. I was told later by another person (we will leave this as a person in authority) that the order found this person not worthy due to some reasons that I would say were personal and not based on the persons expertise or ability to represent the Kingdom as a Laurel.

The other person was for an Award of Arms, and that was granted once we got everything coordinated. This person was new.

In the first case, the person is still very active, but is perturbed that they have not advanced to Laurel yet. It was never relayed that a letter of recommendation was written by me or several others. I am sure the activity level in this person will remain high as there is great love for their study. It is a bit depressing to me that the Order denied any consideration, but that is life.

The second case...well this person is as active as they can be, they put family and work first and see it as a game and this is just a cookie.

In my case, I was surprised to get an AoA, but I do not care if I am awarded or not. Awards to me in this organization are just the good things that happen when you play nice and follow the rules. I am as active as I can be, and when my physical issues are resolved I will be more active and do more work in my field of study (Leather, metals and painting). I am not apprenticed to anyone, but I do have several friends who guide me when I ask.

Jan wrote:There is also the issue of the completely "goal oriented" person. They get into the game, see a goal, attain said goal...then what? They have no reason to stay in the game now that they have attained their goal, as the game was just a construct where the goal existed. They move on....

This is one of the issues I see with knighthood. For better or worse, IMO, it's one of the least nebulous "awards" that one can try and attain (living in a kingdom where we don't really have a general grant level fighting award). Yes, there is a nebulous aspect to it, but there are seemingly easily identifiable measuring sticks for a decent sized portion of what you are being measured for.

Sean Powell wrote:It seems that when people are close to a goal and know it (goal being an award or recognition) they work harder at it. Some times they work so hard that they neglect other things like jobs, family, finances, personal health, etc. It's unsustainable and after reaching the goal they then have to fall back and re-balance their lives.

Or they just burn out on the process and get so pissed off at the hoop-jumping that they just leave, for a while or forever. You can watch this happen All. The. Time.

I know I've seen it over and over again in the Arts. People bust their asses doing great things, the Laurels notice, they get 'done', and POOF! Gone. For a year, maybe more. It's no mistake that quite a few of the Laurels I know got 'done' when they were un- or under-employed, unfulfilled and able to focus all their attention and energy on the SCA for 12-18 months. They get 'done', burn out, focus on getting their real lives in order, and keep the SCA at arm's length for a while. Eventually they might come back to what a reasonable person would consider full participation.

That's best case. Worst case, they have a 'peer year', go completely monkey-poo, and alienate everyone around them even more than they did in the runup to getting 'done'.

In fact, I observe that becoming a disturbing trend/standard here in the East of late.

Cheers,

Bob

The awards fairy is near sighted, deaf in her right ear, has one broken wing; and often forgets to pay her power bill so her wand is not charged up. :0
How awards system works and how they affect people is a very interesting ride. But as the royals above me have stated Write those recommendations up and send them in. How often is up to you. I know of one AOA letter that was written on a napkin with purple crayon.
Then hope the kingdom and royals have a good system of review. I know of one person who been given 5 AOA's. And I know of one rumor where a knight joking said he would smack down a king if the royal did get off his can and give the award.
Now on writting or awarding people who you hate. I have did 2 award recommendations for people I rather run over with their POV but that was because our personalities clash but they were doing the work.
Since we have royals present what is your viewpt of groups(shire, baronary, household, group of his friends) doing letter writing campaigns.

I had never been very active in the SCA. I attended some kingdom events over a couple of years, but never went to any baronial gatherings as they were about 90 miles away. My wife is pathologically shy, was not at all interested in the SCA, and would not attend events and I did not like to go without her. However, I went to a friend's house in the town I live who had been in the SCA and I learned how to fight a little bit. I did armouring in my workshop and made some stuff. I posted some of my things on the internet for others to see and hung out here and regurgitated some of the information that I learned. I went to an event and got authorized, but I didn't fight after I got it.

At the next event I attended a year later, I participated in a demo at a local ren faire and was given an award that I should have received at the Tournament of Valor if had I been there. I was made a member of the Order of the Leather Mallet which is an AoA level award for my armouring. My wife attended that event but was very uncomfortable with the whole thing, and stated she would not return to another event. I decided not to attend without her and I have never been to another SCA event.

I have always felt guilty for receiving the award and I feel unworthy. I was concerned that I was given the award as an incentive to play more. I had not really helped anyone learn armouring in the barony. I never really was an asset to the kingdom or barony due my absence and lack of participation. I hear of instances of those who have done much for years and never received any recognition and it makes me feel ill. I am guessing the person who recommended me for the award is a member of the AA since I really had no real contact with those in my barony or the kingdom. I feel very honored that someone thought enough of me to recommend me for an award. However I feel much regret that I have not attended another event since receiving the award and likely never will. I will never live up to the honors that have been given me. I am sorry.

All that said, the award is framed in a very beautiful frame and still hangs in a place of honor in my home.

Any of the polling orders can have "personal issues" playing a part---both ways; sometimes you just have to wait for someone to mellow or drop out...(and sometimes it can be rather odd, I know of a person who was not considered because their *spouse* was disliked by a power in that order...)

When I was laurelled after 20 years in the SCA I asked a friend in the order "Why?" his reply was "It was getting embarrassing that you were not a member."

As for multiple awards---why not? I hold the armigerous A&S award in at least 3 kingdoms: Sable Thistle, Leather Mallet, Silver Oak and was probably too busy helping found a group in the fourth one. Just like the Duke of Wellington was inducted to a slew of knightly orders after Waterloo getting "repetitive" awards can be a nice pat on the back---unless they take the place of receiving a higher order as some polling orders will not consider someone who hasn't punched their card with the lower awards.

Wilelm the smith

couple of musings:

1) The attitude of "if they want it, they don't deserve it".. this pisses people off. Because everyone on the path to Knighthood WANTS it. But there's some pools of people where if you actually _say_ you want it, you won't get it..for whatever reason. This trickles down to other awards, as well.

2) People who work their ass off and keep getting passed over or ignored, while watching some bling chaser get award after award for showing up at the right place and the right time and kissing the right ass get burned out and annoyed. EG: Someone in perfect garb and kit who spends hours and hours at the events they can actually manage to attend, that person who is ALWAYS there when you need someone and will do anything, who get told "Well, if you actually made it to more events.. " and the other person in pink tennies and shades, most often seen with a pennsic T-shirt and bike shorts on, who is always buzzing around the power group, but not doing much, and who ends up with every "yer a good kid" award possible. This pisses off people and makes them leave.

3) the ever rising bar which is the peer-review process. (Don't tell me it doesn't happen, it does, we've all seen it, and there's nothing you can do about it).. if you cannot beat or do better than the people reviewing you, you aren't going to get the award. nevermind that it's supposed to show "equality" with the peerage...

4) The concept that awards actually mean something.. and I'll point out the line above that "we trust you with more responsibility".. that's a common misconception. how much "respsonsibility" you have once you climb the awards ladder is purely personal and subjective. There's no "leveling up" and increase of skill, power, or strength with an award, though many view it as such.

Not saying there's anything wrong with our awards structure.. it is what it is, and it works. But there are a lot of misconceptions and misperceptions out there about it.

I heard a LOT of snotty comments about my bestest bud when he got his Court Barony. Tons of people bitching and whining about "why does he deserve it". Nobody had seen him doing what he did.. which was showing up at damn near EVERY royal progress retaining for someone who was retaining for the King. (and yes, that's an important job, believe it or not). nor had anyone noticed all the stuff he made and presented to the Regalia. (Stools, banner stands, boxes, gifts, you name it). Nor had they been there when he pulled the royal truck and royal trailer out of the mud, etc etc. Nor had they seen that he attended events and practices weekly and bi-weekly, respectively, in a thousand mile strip up and down the coast for a year.

So, when you reward someone you run the risk of ruffling feathers.. ESPECIALLY when it's one of the "here, yer a good kid" awards like a court baroncy or QOC or the like.. non peerage awards.

um that not what I talking about Thomas. The gentle got 5 aoas here in Meridies. Same award bad record keeping. Meridies does give out bare AOA and GOA. And very few of our awards come with arms. I think only the Velet Owl (arts science 2nd level award came with the option of a Grant).
Now it was a practice at one time to give out the awards without a scroll. Which led to Knights getting called into court for an AoA and other awards.

Maeryk wrote:3) the ever rising bar which is the peer-review process. (Don't tell me it doesn't happen, it does, we've all seen it, and there's nothing you can do about it).. if you cannot beat or do better than the people reviewing you, you aren't going to get the award. nevermind that it's supposed to show "equality" with the peerage...

I think this is perfectly natural, and desirable! Typically it's "greater than or equal to", rather than "equal to". The former is much easier to prove than the latter.

It also hugely depends on the art form one is doing. The bar for costuming or C&I is quite high in many places. The bar for more obscure arts (such as moneying in some areas, not West or An Tir!), may be lower. The balance of research to art that your kingdom values plays a huge part too. I've seen some rather dramatic differences there...

Maeryk wrote:I heard a LOT of snotty comments about my bestest bud when he got his Court Barony. Tons of people bitching and whining about "why does he deserve it".

Crap like this pretty much instantly moves someone to my ignore list. Hanging around whiny negative people just isn't worth it.

-Derian.

Jasper wrote:The gentle got 5 aoas here in Meridies. Same award bad record keeping.

Sounds like whoever is maintaining your OP either isn't doing their job, or the royals aren't bothering to check it.

An Tir has a searchable database driven OP, so awards are entered quickly and painlessly.

Caid generates PDFs roughly monthly, and has a public google docs spreadsheet of awards that have been awarded since the last official OP update.

Both systems seem to work pretty well.

-Derian.

Maeryk wrote:1) The attitude of "if they want it, they don't deserve it".. this pisses people off. Because everyone on the path to Knighthood WANTS it. But there's some pools of obnoxious twerps where if you actually _say_ you want it, you won't get it.

Fixed that for you.

This is the bullshittiest aspect of the entire SCA award structure: Aspiration is treated as though it's a mortal sin. Of course, fighters are usually allowed to aspire toward being a Knight. But heaven forfend one aspires to be a Laurel! The arrogance! The horror!



First, it's a fact that aspiration is a powerful motivator. Second, if you follow the obnoxious twerps's advice and "just do what you love", nine times out of ten you'll spend 20 years being ignored. Aspiration makes you do things like put yourself in the way of the people who will facilitate the award, where "just do what you love" puts you in a corner over there where nobody will notice you. Ever.

I agree that words are important. I agree that wanting "award" is suspect. Wanting "to be award" is a different sentiment. If you say you want "award", that's a pretty clear symptom that it's the cookie only that's important. If you say you want "to be award", that means you want to be like those inspirational people who hold the award. "I want a Knighthood" is entirely different than "I want to be a Knight".

Anyway. Enough shamming, pretending to work.

Bob

LOL - if I were in the SCA to "get awards" I'd have burned out a LOOOOOONG time ago. 27 years in it, and I've only ever received two. AoA and GoA. The first in 1988, the other in 2003.

I'm in it because I have fun, and still enjoy it.

on a personal not i am one of those people who have been passed up for any type of recognition. and in the beginning, say the first 7-8 years in the sca it mattered to me.
i busted my ass to be as helpful as i could i volunteered for anythin that needed to be done, fought my ass off, made practices all over the kingdom, worked events nearly every weekend and the only time i ever recieved even a good job was after i became friends with the local baroness.
now though some 19 years in its not so important to me. i dropped out for a few years and now that im back im more active than i have been in a long time but i dont go out of my way like i used to.
now its a different game for me. one where i spend time with my friends and enjoy the event and just relaxing as opposed to working so much. my whole viewpoint on the awards system has changed from something i aspired to, into more of a ill never kiss the right ass so why bother attitude.
I do have friends in high places now so im sure if i worked like i used to it would be different but at this point the candle has burned far too low for me to care.

Maeryk wrote:4) The concept that awards actually mean something.. and I'll point out the line above that "we trust you with more responsibility".. that's a common misconception. how much "respsonsibility" you have once you climb the awards ladder is purely personal and subjective. There's no "leveling up" and increase of skill, power, or strength with an award, though many view it as such.

I've thought about this (since I'm the one who said "we trust you with more responsibility"), and while I agree that award perception is purely subjective, I stand by my comment.
Plenty of people write recommendations based on this exact issue, trust that the honoured person will be responsible.

A number of awards are given based on this trust. It backfires sometimes, but that doesn't invalidate the motivation of the recommendation.
It is one of the reasons awards are recommended.

I'd also point out that if the populace perceives a 'leveling up' and treats the recepient of a particular award with more responsibility, it becomes reality in that section of the game, whether or not that is wise.

Jasper, the OvO doesn't carry a grant (former OvO secretary here). I thought that was a little strange when I got the award, but I already had a grant- bearing Calon Lily from my former kingdom. Some kingdoms give it on the "GoA" level, some don't.

As to record keeping: We try. The Crown is as good as the kingdom filing system and the rate at which the OP is kept up by the herald's office, because that's often all you can do. Good Crowns try very hard to keep good records for their heirs, but sometimes things slip through.

And no, you can't look at awards as cookies. It makes people bitter. There will always be that guy gets a peerage because the right people were in the right meeting and no one sent a proxy "no" and the Crown didn't know the guy well enough - or knew him too well. Or the guy who got pushed through because he's the prince's buddy. There will always be that chick who got the court barony for dating the king's best friend Sir Bob, while the person who worked 20+ hours a week making the reign work got nothing. It's not fair. Fortunately, the above scenarios just aren't very common.

Fairness is wonderful, but people are failible, and there ain't shit you can do about it. What you can do is be a cheerleader for those who work their asses off. What an order/the Crown does notice is regular commentary about how good so and so is at what they do. If you see someone deserving of an award, mention it to a member of the requisite polling order.

And when the deserving get something cheer loudly. (One of the saddest things I've seen was a peer announced and the audience in the room politely clapping as the whispers went round: Who's that?)

But you can't see an award as just a cookie, because the devoted people who have one or more peerages are going to keep going, even after the awards and the point where they can't get any more. They do it because they love it.

There are other organizations with more structured hierarchies and rules for advancement that do better for some people.

We do this for fun. We're crazy nerds who love research and making stuff and hitting folks with sticks. It would be a shame to lose all the fun for the sake of a title.

Yours,
Gwen

Heath B fraychef wrote:so a close friend of mine recently recieved an award here at a local event.
its an award (crescent sword) Awarded for superior skill and appearance in armored combat.
not this is great. im very happy he recieved some kind of recognition as he had been in the sca for 19 years withought even a nod but...
he has been out of the loop so to speak for the past 10 years showing up at maybe three events in that time. except for three years ago i had him going to maybe 3-4 events that year. now his kit is nice but if he's never wearing it how is that showing superior apearance in combat?
then he again lost interest. which is fine.
but it seems that one or maybe a couple locals have decided that if this guy were given some kind of award he would participate more.
knowing the guy as well as i do this is simply not the case.
not to mention he has only been to 1 event in the last 2 years, his fighting skill in really not all that up to par and his gear is all dissasembled in a huge pile in my garage i kind of see this as deserving recognition. maybe a service award for past service but this one just seems so out of place.
anybody else see this kind of thing happen?
i know plenty of people more deserving of recognition who go un noticed.
or is it simply a case of somebody wrote in for him?
is there really no checking on awards or does the crown simply take the writers word for it?

Do you really mistrust your Crowns this much?

Are you harmed by his receipt of recognition ?

Are you doing anything more than spreading a rumor as to why he was recommended to the Crowns?

Is anyone harmed by a person receiving an award that they deserved at some point in the past but may no longer be active enough to maintain at this time? Note that this is quite distinct from the award going to someone who never lived up to the standard for the award, although the question would still merit some consideration.

People get awards that they do not deserve. People do not get awards they do deserve. People we don't think deserve awards may get them - because they actually deserve them and our opinions are not valid. People we think deserve awards do not get them - because they actually do not deserve them and our opinions are not valid. People get awards and drop out - for a myriad of reasons.

None of us has all of the information and makes perfectly informed decisions. Even if we did, opinions would still vary as to what ought to be done regarding awards.

I try not to worry about it and encourage others to do likewise.

armorbug wrote:One of the longest running SCA jokes is that if you want to get someone to stop playing just give them a knighthood.

It almost worked on me.

I have received awards for doing the things that I enjoy and have gotten punished with meetings. I have made myself inactive and when I do go to events I skip meetings and what not. Each of us needs to find what is fun for us and strive to enjoy ourselves.

The SCA mimics life, it isn't fair.

Uric

If you try to figure out why some things happen with awards, you will just give yourself a complex. The politics dynamic changes with every crown. I know of someone who was knighted after 3 years of inactivity and has been inactive since. Some head scratching there but it is what it is. I was recently knighted and certainly do not look at this as achieving the end goal. In fact it kinda feels like I am at the beginning all over again. It is humbling for sure and I look forward to keep striving for the same goals that got me here. Try to keep bettering myself, help where I can, accept that I can't make everyone happy, try to bring attention to those who deserve it, and try to meet lots of cool people along the way. Just some thoughts.

Edward

Derian le Breton wrote:

Jasper wrote:The gentle got 5 aoas here in Meridies. Same award bad record keeping.

-Derian.

Derian this was before databases were invented... no really think late 80s and no later than 91.
My knight's wife was Kingdom Seneshal for a while. And we would laugh instead of cry about how some of records were kept. Compared with how much kingdom data is now online.

warning thread drift ahead

my personal example was when I became bagatelle Or he who in charge of ding dangles things which go with awards. Meridies does give out badges/stuff with awards. So if you get a AOA it may only be the 1/4 in brass ring you can get from Walmart's craft section but you will get something

My office records where 3 small vanilla legal folders of documentation. With some template sheets on how to make regalia for each award. Some documentation on if the badge was passed or not. Some awards had no submitted badges. And the templates were photocopies of HANDWRITTEN notes and not profession drawn images.
And no group had access to the directions.When I pass on my office, I gave my successor a legal box of about 3/4 of notes. and tote box of various regalia.

Compare that with today. I went to the Tavern yard (meridies forum) and checked the files section. The Bagetelle zip file has all the directions to create the award danglelys.
end of thread drift

azure d'or see above about the state of the documentation. Or I could be thinking of another award. Come on I think I pass on the office in 2003 and my last update on the my personal notes is 2006.

I am good friends with someone in Meridies who has 4 (I think) AoA's and now a GoA.

We jokingly refer to him as "The Honourable Lord, Lord, Lord, Lord XXXXXXX XX XXXXXXX". (name XXX'd out to protect the guilty)

brewer wrote:Second, if you follow the obnoxious twerps's advice and "just do what you love", nine times out of ten you'll spend 20 years being ignored.

Who cares if you're ignored, if you're doing what you love then it doesn't matter.

Personally, doing what I love is exactly why I'm a re-enactor and handing me awards doesn't enhance my experience. It's the satisfaction of doing better than I did last year, knowing more than I did before, that gives me a sense of achievement.

Don't be so quick to write off "doing what you love". Not everyone is in this game for the same reasons.

brewer wrote:Second, if you follow the obnoxious twerps's advice and "just do what you love", nine times out of ten you'll spend 20 years being ignored. Aspiration makes you do things like put yourself in the way of the people who will facilitate the award, where "just do what you love" puts you in a corner over there where nobody will notice you. Ever.

Shrug, that wasn't my experience. Maybe it's because I have a weird art, or that I enjoy teaching, sharing information, and A&S competitions... I had plenty of exposure.

-Derian.

Gobae - you're not wrong, entirely. Doing what you love is its own reward, and I'm not for an instant writing off doing what you love. That reward is not, however, the same reward as being recognized in front of lots of people and given a shiny present to signify that other people know and appreciate the things you love that you also do. To pretend that the rewards are equivalent is false.

Derian - All those things surely help. A weird/new art is noticeable because it gets people talking, especially if you enjoy telling people about it. You're enthusiastic, knowledgeable, and fun to talk to. You are, I think you know, one of the exceptions to the SCA's psychological archetype. You're the one out of ten.

Cheers,

Bob

brewer wrote:
This is the bullshittiest aspect of the entire SCA award structure: Aspiration is treated as though it's a mortal sin. Of course, fighters are usually allowed to aspire toward being a Knight. But heaven forfend one aspires to be a Laurel! The arrogance! The horror!

Most Laurels are perfectly OK with people who aspire to be Laurels. The problem is, many Laurels have encountered people who feel *entitled* to be Laurels. And when you're a Laurel, there's not so much you can do with a person like this-- unless your interpersonal skills are really amazing, you may be stuck with giving them scores on some A&S competition project that they didn't expect, and then watching them cry. The Laurels as a group are defensive about the stereotype of mean Laurels who make people cry, and would like to skip the whole ordeal, so they make pre-emptive strikes against entitlement, which bleed over . . .

Knights get to smite people who act entitled. And those people don't usually let the knights see them cry. The Laurels are perhaps a little jealous.

--Ursula Georges
(who thinks Derian is pretty cool, herself)