The Armour Archive

Well; my canvas conical tent cost $40 about 25 years ago, used, (was a movie prop). I can stand up in it, it's still going strong---comfortably slept in it last Saturday night when our socks and boots froze *solid* outside it as they were soaked wading the rivers coming back to camp. My wooden boxes I store cooking gear in were free and can be sat on by people over 300 pounds.

Don't see how *that* could be done cheaper in a dome tent and bag chairs; but you do have to always be aware of the possibilities as you go about your daily rounds to find stuff at fleamarkets and garage sales and thrift stores. And of course last minute buys are almost always more expensive than keeping a lookout for a year ahead of time.

i honestly plan on picking up a Soulpad as those are somewhat period looking (look like short walled pavillions) but are cheaper and offer plenty of space and arent as bad as pimple pavillions

Why waste the money? Do you plan to stick around? I presume from the questions I've seen you asking here on the AA that you are. So I wonder: Why throw good money after bad?

If you enjoy modern camping, and will do that as much as or more than SCA events, the Soulpad is a neat tent; I'd consider one myself in that situation. However, if you don't, and/or if you plan to attend lots of SCA events, there will come a time when you look at your Soulpad amongst all that much more medieval-looking canvas and want a more historical pavilion. For the footprint of a Soulpad you can pick up a medieval-looking canvas pavilion for not much more if not less money. Why not get the tool you actually need to do the job? The Soulpad vs. Pavilion issue has been hashed out here before, but here is a simple comparison:

The least-expensive Soulpad is ~$500. It offers ~130 ft2 of internal space. The least-expensive slant-wall 5-pole pavilion from Midwest Tent is $295, gives you 100ft2 of internal space. The Soulpad statistically has more space, but it's round; some of that space is unusable, where every square inch of floor space the Midwest tent can be used. The Midwest tent has a more medieval shape, as the Soulpad clearly is inspired by 19th-20th century British army tents. The Midwest tent is clearly by any metric a better investment than the Soulpad for SCA use.

Even if the Soulpad was half the price of the Midwest tent, buying one is still false economy. If you plan to be a medieval enthusiast, eventually you'll buy a medieval tent anyway. So if you buy a Soulpad for $500, then two years later buy a period pavilion for $1000, you haven't saved anything; on the contrary, you've spent $500 more than you'd have done if you bought the right tent in the first place. Make sense?

Cheers!

Bob

In our camp at Pennsic, the canvas tents are placed up front and the non period tents are to the rear. We have a mix of tents; round, regent, rectangular and wedges. Our common area is in the center and we have two canvas sun shades; one as common shade and one for cooking. If it were totally up to me, the cooking shade would have some type of wall, to hide the modern items in there : Stoves, oven sink, etc. But it is a household decision to not worry about it at present.

My wife and I bought our canvas merchant pavilion (rectangle) three years ago used. It is 11 x17 and I think we paid $600 for it complete. I love it. I can use half of it as a tent and half of it as a porch or just use the half that we aren't using 100% as storage for other's modern items to keep them out of sight, but close at hand. It is a compromise.

I do need to talk to Maeryk about chairs though...I don't have the time to make them and covered camp chairs are getting old...

Its pretty much been ancient Calontir custom that period pavilions get royal courtyard and the best camping spots at wars(Lilies excluded), while non period get the low areas and non-tasty camping spots in the back. We openly call it the "nylon wastes".

Subtle peer pressure seems to work well for us.

One thing people forget is that mostly there are other people going to events with you for the most part, unless you are heading into the boonies alone(as I do for hunting) and need your canvas tent, you can probably find someone to help take a center or ridge pole for you. Personally I do this all the time for people and charge a flat fee of 1 beer per 2 feet of pole. I get beer, you get a pavilion. Hey Presto!

Malachiuri wrote:you can probably find someone to help take a center or ridge pole for you. Personally I do this all the time for people and charge a flat fee of 1 beer per 2 feet of pole. I get beer, you get a pavilion. Hey Presto!

Holy frikkin' crap, this is brilliant.

Good thinking, man. Damn. I don't know why something like this never occurred to me. But thanks for that. Seriously.

brewer wrote:Why waste the money? Do you plan to stick around? I presume from the questions I've seen you asking here on the AA that you are. So I wonder: Why throw good money after bad?

If you enjoy modern camping, and will do that as much as or more than SCA events, the Soulpad is a neat tent; I'd consider one myself in that situation. However, if you don't, and/or if you plan to attend lots of SCA events, there will come a time when you look at your Soulpad amongst all that much more medieval-looking canvas and want a more historical pavilion. For the footprint of a Soulpad you can pick up a medieval-looking canvas pavilion for not much more if not less money. Why not get the tool you actually need to do the job? The Soulpad vs. Pavilion issue has been hashed out here before, but here is a simple comparison:

The least-expensive Soulpad is ~$500. It offers ~130 ft2 of internal space. The least-expensive slant-wall 5-pole pavilion from Midwest Tent is $295, gives you 100ft2 of internal space. The Soulpad statistically has more space, but it's round; some of that space is unusable, where every square inch of floor space the Midwest tent can be used. The Midwest tent has a more medieval shape, as the Soulpad clearly is inspired by 19th-20th century British army tents. The Midwest tent is clearly by any metric a better investment than the Soulpad for SCA use.

Even if the Soulpad was half the price of the Midwest tent, buying one is still false economy. If you plan to be a medieval enthusiast, eventually you'll buy a medieval tent anyway. So if you buy a Soulpad for $500, then two years later buy a period pavilion for $1000, you haven't saved anything; on the contrary, you've spent $500 more than you'd have done if you bought the right tent in the first place. Make sense?

Cheers!

Bob

theres some major reasons behind soulpad vs period period tent
-While many period tents at gulf wars i talked to flooded no soulpad flooded (my pimple pavillion flooded badly D= )
-while 500 vs 1000 may seem simple math to you but if i try to save up for a 1000 dollar tent I wont have a tent in time for pennsive whereas 500 is within the scope and plausible
-ill feel better knowing im using my tent and not someone elses(borrowed my step dads for gulf and both tents got waterlogged and punctured, the soulpad is supposed to have a rugged bottom with bathtub siding to prevent flooding
-its easy enough to singlehandedly setup that like at gulf wars I can go help others setup their tents quickly
-and simply put the soulpad imho while not exactly period is made of canvas so would look fine probably in the 2nd row of tents to block the pimple pavillions vs a pimple pavillion
-theres other costs to think about when talking about pavillions that you will need: tarps, rugs/floor of some sort, furniture, and probably more stuff I dont realize
- and from what i can tell a soulpad already has the heavy duty bottom which also can act as the floor, I can put a sleeping bag down without worrying about flooding, and its well designed overall
-last benifet is the ability to keep the shade around me but open the side walls to air out the tent is also nice

I was looking at Midwest Tents pretty hard a few months ago because their prices are really amazing. Some of my friends bought a tent from them, and had an abnormally leaky Gulf War. Sounds like they need additional water proofing. As long as you're prepared to take care of that they may still be a great deal.

A lot of what Brewer says rings true for me- It makes more sense to get a period shaped pavilion if you're going to do this a lot.

Set the bar for your kingdom and others will try to jump it.

Balin50 wrote:Set the bar for your kingdom and others will try to jump it.

Says the voice of experience.

Gaston de Clermont wrote:I was looking at Midwest Tents pretty hard a few months ago because their prices are really amazing. Some of my friends bought a tent from them, and had an abnormally leaky Gulf War. Sounds like they need additional water proofing. As long as you're prepared to take care of that they may still be a great deal.

Weird. I have a midwest round and never had an issue.

Gaston de Clermont wrote:A lot of what Brewer says rings true for me- It makes more sense to get a period shaped pavilion if you're going to do this a lot.

Agreed.

Swete wrote:

brewer wrote: If you maintain open sight lines, people can look into your camp, even as you can look out. Where you shudder and groan inwardly at the sea of nylon, when they look in they see utter coolness. Soon you will spread the infection.
Bob

This is what happened to me. I was going to get a nylon pop up (and I still may for those tiny day trip events), but ever since I got squired and I saw the encampment that my knigh uses, I so want an Anglo-Saxon wedge tent now. I has been bit.

Alright for you Saxons! Have pity on us poor Elizabethans with our tent desires!

Elizabethans desiring tents?---Don't be ridiculous! You should be desiring half timbered houses!

Andrea Ferrara wrote:theres some major reasons behind soulpad vs period period tent

Okay. Let's take 'em line by line.

-While many period tents at gulf wars i talked to flooded no soulpad flooded (my pimple pavillion flooded badly D= )

That is by no means an indictment of the period tent. It is an indictment of the user.

-while 500 vs 1000 may seem simple math to you but if i try to save up for a 1000 dollar tent I wont have a tent in time for pennsive whereas 500 is within the scope and plausible

Some tentmakers are quite expensive. I have several $2500+ Panther tents. However, I think you missed the part where I showed you the much less obviously modern tent for half of the Soulpad's price! You don't have to compromise.

Further, you're either dismissing or missing entirely the facts I listed about false economy. Either way, that's a huge mistake. You're not a person who's going to try the SCA a couple of times and go, "Meh. I'd rather hunt fairies." You're into this for the long haul. If you have your heart set on a kilo-buck tent and you want to go to Pennsic 2012 and buy a Soulpad you still have wasted $500 worth of saving-up and real money. Listen, the arithmetic is simple. It's so simple it's not worth calling "math"! If you spend $500 on a Soulpad then spend $1000 on the tent you want, you've spent a total of $1500 (1000+500). I don't know about you, but I'd rather flog my case to my friends/local Barony members/household and bum a place to crash at Pennsic than throw good money after bad. That's just stupid.

-ill feel better knowing im using my tent and not someone elses(borrowed my step dads for gulf and both tents got waterlogged and punctured, the soulpad is supposed to have a rugged bottom with bathtub siding to prevent flooding

This one, you got me. I can't counter your feelings with facts. You can learn a technique or two for dealing with water in canvas, though; see below.

-its easy enough to singlehandedly setup that like at gulf wars I can go help others setup their tents quickly

So are the Midwest center-pole marquee styles. I set up two 18'x18' center-pole marquees at big events by myself. Singlehanded setup is a snap with that design.

-and simply put the soulpad imho while not exactly period is made of canvas so would look fine probably in the 2nd row of tents to block the pimple pavillions vs a pimple pavillion

And, even more simply put, Midwest's much less obtrusively modern tents are half the price of a Soulpad and look far more appropriate.

-theres other costs to think about when talking about pavillions that you will need: tarps, rugs/floor of some sort, furniture, and probably more stuff I dont realize

1. You don't need furniture if you don't want it. If you can sleep on a foam pad in a Soulpad you can sleep on a foam pad in a more-period pavilion.
2. The other stuff you don't realize is going to be exactly the same situation with either tent, too.
3. You will need a tarp or some kind of ground cloth. That's what your savings ($300 vs. $500+) can go toward.

- and from what i can tell a soulpad already has the heavy duty bottom which also can act as the floor, I can put a sleeping bag down without worrying about flooding, and its well designed overall

Yes, a Soulpad has a built-in floor. That is a win in flood situations. But that doesn't mean other tents are comparatively lacking; it means you don't yet know how to deal with situations like that with a period tent. You're arguing from a position of ignorance. That's not meant to be a shot. That's meant to say, "There's just some stuff about period-oid camping you just don't know yet." If, for example, you're worried about flooding, trench. Boom. Flooding prevented.

-last benifet is the ability to keep the shade around me but open the side walls to air out the tent is also nice

...which you can also do with a less obtrusively-modern, less expensive tent like the Midwest tents I linked to above.

Not for nothin', dude, but we've had this thread before here on the Archive. The period tent just WINS. It wins on available space and price, and meets the Soulpad on ease of setup and comfort (once you learn a couple of brainlessly simple techniques). Now stop with the "but"s, buy the right thing the first time, and stop over-thinking this!

Cheers,

Bob

You can either get the sewn in bottom OR be able to roll the sides up on a soulpad. Not both.

Cheapest soulpad with sewn in bottom: $600. 13' in diameter, which gives you 132square feet- all of which is curved, and most of it with low overhead.

For $21.00 less, you could get one of these: http://midwesttent.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=22- which will give you a little over 300 square feet of living space, including one straight wall long enough to put your bed up against. If you went with all white, it would be even cheaper.

Another option would be a simple wall tent: http://fcsutler.com/fccanvas.asp at 10'6" by 12', you'd have about 6 square foot less than the soulpad- but it has straight walls, so the usable space is a WHOLE lot more. By the time you got a ground cloth and poles, you'd still be about 30% cheaper than the soulpad.

Personally, I don't mind the look of the soulpad (and I'm still not convinced that they are all that "nonperiod")- but you can spend a whole lot less on something that both works better and isn't as controversial in appearance.

Balin50 wrote:Set the bar for your kingdom and others will try to jump it.

This is true even for small groups. One or two of us bought Panther pavilions one year in Windale and it's been about five years and they have multiplied, the Shire bought a larger Panther for the group, and several people have build Vardos on top of it. You don't have to do much but raise your own bar and people will often follow suit.

Blockade Runner is another good source for Wedge and Wall tents.

http://www.blockaderunner.com/Catalog/catpg31.htm

LARGE WALL TENT
12 Ft. Long, 10 Ft. Wide, 4 Ft. Walls,
7 Ft. 4 Inches at the Peak.

$349.95


...that is the one I have, which I posed a pic of earlier.

Here is a pic, from last weekend (Fool's War) with my Wall Tent in the middle, a Soulpad to my right, and someone's huge Marquee tent to the left.

Thomas Powers wrote:Elizabethans desiring tents?---Don't be ridiculous! You should be desiring half timbered houses!

Well, granted, being old, and grey and slow, I tend to find coaching inns near events and stay in 'em, as a gentleman and his family should.... but whilst it means creature comforts, it does mean missing some of the event!

Dauyd wrote:Personally, I don't mind the look of the soulpad (and I'm still not convinced that they are all that "nonperiod")

It is a white version of this:



That is CLEARLY not medieval, not in the slightest. It's 1942. What more do you need?

but you can spend a whole lot less on something that both works better and isn't as controversial in appearance.

And that is the most important point.

Cheers,

Bob

brewer wrote:

Dauyd wrote:Personally, I don't mind the look of the soulpad (and I'm still not convinced that they are all that "nonperiod")

It is a white version of this:



That is CLEARLY not medieval, not in the slightest. It's 1942. What more do you need?

but you can spend a whole lot less on something that both works better and isn't as controversial in appearance.

And that is the most important point.

Cheers,

Bob

Not THAT unperiod. Compare with http://www.pasttents.com/tents/civil_wa ... _bell_tent

Wall tents are still in use today, but that doesn't mean they are not period.

One of the last times the subject came up, someone posted images from period that showed tents that looked to my eye nearly identical in design to the soulpad.

Guys - The Soulpad is clearly NOT a medieval or Early Modern bell tent. It is clearly a post-1900 design. It is a copy of the 1942 British bell-wall or whatever you want to call it, merely done in white or off-white canvas instead of mustard yellow. IT IS NOT A MEDIEVAL TENT. IT IS A MODERN TENT.

For Pete's sake! Stop making excuses for something that's not only mediocre but MORE EXPENSIVE than the alternative!

Seriously, I don't get you guys. It couldn't be clearer!

Scratching his head,

Bob

I suppose if you cut 2-3 feet off the central pole so the side walls are no longer visible and you got rid of the windows/chimney/things at the top it'd be a decent impersonation of a bell, but by the time you'd done all that...

brewer wrote:Guys - The Soulpad is clearly NOT a medieval or Early Modern bell tent. It is clearly a post-1900 design. It is a copy of the 1942 British bell-wall or whatever you want to call it, merely done in white or off-white canvas instead of mustard yellow. IT IS NOT A MEDIEVAL TENT. IT IS A MODERN TENT.

For Pete's sake! Stop making excuses for something that's not only mediocre but MORE EXPENSIVE than the alternative!

Seriously, I don't get you guys. It couldn't be clearer!

Scratching his head,

Bob

RDWHAHB

heres something you guys miss from your posting those "less expensive tents" you post about



Poles, ropes and tent stakes are not included with our tents. We can provide an instruction sheet for making the poles required (2 X 4's and 2 X 2's) for the specific tent.

You may add tent stakes to your tent order, or purchase them separately below.

i added the tent to my cart and it came out to way above 500, not including a ground cloth when the soulpad includes it all

also ive helped someone setup one of those wall tents....they are NOT single man job tents by far

The one I linked to comes to $421 when you add the stakes.

2x2's are about $1.50 each- you'd need 7 of them, so $10.50. Add another $10 for the pins.

2x4's are a couple bucks, and you'd need 2 and a sleeve for the ridgepole- so figure about $10 for that.

You can find a tarp for less than $20.

Rope is like $10.

Altogether about $470 for everything- which is STILL about 25% less than the soulpad- for a roomier, more correct tent.

As far as putting it up by yourself, it can be done. I've done it, and seen it done. But realistically, you are talking about SCA camping- when was the last time you saw somebody have to put up a tent and nobody was willing to help? Really, the only part that you need an extra hand is putting up the ridgepole- but even that can be done alone if needed.

im getting 593 but then again maybe im doing it wrong but 470 vs 500 for a soulpad isnt 25% cheaper

its 650 for a soulpad hybrid (which is the most expensive version and highest end one) 50 dollars isnt 25% of 650

http://soulpad.com/sanctuary/component/ ... /vmcchk,1/

The cheapest soulpad with the sewn in groundcloth (that you've mentioned repeatedly) is $600. The cheapest one they sell is $520- but that doesn't have the bottom that you talk about.

$470 is 21.6% less than $600.

Dunno how you are coming up with $593.


(edit) I actually made a small error in my calculations above. I already included a groundcloth when I priced the wall tent- so the $20 tarp isn't needed. Thus, revise my estimate to $450. $450 is exactly 25% less than $600.

Andrea Ferrara wrote:also ive helped someone setup one of those wall tents....they are NOT single man job tents by far

I can setup my wall-tent all by myself, *except* for the raising of the ridge beam. That, yes, I do need one other person to help with.

Aside from that one, 30 second long need for help...I can do it alone.

I have an 18x20 marquis, and I can set it up by myself.. it just takes some forethought. Lay out the roof. put up four corner poles, roped 2 ways each. Install ridge beam. Install "legs" parallell with ground. Walk the legs up bit by bit.

I know that this might not be helpful since in Europe SCA really is in much smaller scale events (I think 250 people is the biggest that we can expect and that is only in Double wars-event.), but we just place the non-period tents out of sight.

In the few camping events we have the "main camping area" only has period looking tents and pavillions. Any mundane tents are bit further away. (usually in the forest or at some parking area where the RV's are.)

Edit: Then again since our events are smaller scale most of the people without period tents fit into the indoor lodgings.

I ran into a slight problem the very first event I ever went to and it almost made me stop and swear off ever participating again. We arrived during the very early morning hours and were told where there was others from our kingdom camping and decided we would set up there. After setting up most everything we were told we had to move because it was too close to the main encampment (in my mind it said nobody wanted to look at us.) It is something when the people you are interested in becoming like basically thumb there noses at you from the start for not being as accurate or period as they are in their recreation. So after moving my entire setup way in the back where we were told to set up the sun came up and we found that not only we we shoved way out of the way but everyone of the other campers had their tents turned away from our area so we would not have to be seen. Fortunately my lady is a hell of a seemstress or perhaps we would have been shuned the entire event for being too new to even talk to lest it may fall upon chance that they are observed talking to someone not in a great outfit. The ones who made us feel unwelcomed I never seen again that entire event. So many more positives came from being there and getting to see all the great period set ups that I was inspired to get better each event to push to have a more period style to my own set up. I think the best way to deal with non period anything in the SCA is to inspire the people to do better. If everyone turns your back or segregates out the "problems" you are only going to create a bigger rift. I only took one member of the civalry to take time talking to me in front of my own coleman tent to inspire me to vow that next time I get the opportunity I will try as best I might to do it better than the last. Thats how the SCA got where it is today by improving. Inspire and include the ones around you that are not so period so that they can see how it is done and you will be suprised who shows up with a more period set up the next time.

Dauyd wrote:RDWHAHB

Andrea Ferrara wrote:heres something you guys miss from your posting those "less expensive tents" you post about

Poles, ropes and tent stakes are not included with our tents. We can provide an instruction sheet for making the poles required (2 X 4's and 2 X 2's) for the specific tent.

You may add tent stakes to your tent order, or purchase them separately below.

i added the tent to my cart and it came out to way above 500, not including a ground cloth when the soulpad includes it all

Dauyd already addressed this. You must have goofed something up somewhere.

also ive helped someone setup one of those wall tents....they are NOT single man job tents by far

Not the ones I posted you didn't. If you had, you'd know it's a one-person job. That's the point of the design. A 10-year-old girl can set up a center-pole marquee by herself. Wall tents, or any tent with ridge, is another matter, but Maeryk already addressed this.

Seriously, Andrea, what's your beef with a tent appropriate to the SCA's period? I mean, if you want a Soulpad so desperately, go buy one, fer Crissake. If you're comfortable with it looking medieval-ish enough for your purposes, that's fine by me. I just don't want you to come back to the Archive with questions about the more appropriate tent in a year's time. If you dare to post moaning about how much your new medieval tent is going to cost - you know, the one you'll want to buy to replace your Soulpad - I will personally introduce myself at the next EK Southern Region event so I can point and laugh at you.

Tell you what: Let's get together and have a beer or something so I can get you over this fear you seem to have of an appropriate tent.

I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.





Cheers!

Bob

Bob

I get your point
I get where your coming from
I get what you are trying to convey
I totally agree with just about everything your saying

BUT..........

Your coming across as kind of a dick
I know you aren't so I just wanted to throw that out there in case I am not the only one thinking it but to afraid to say anything.
(but then again I may be reading to much into your 'tone')

With total and utmost respect

brewer wrote:

Dauyd wrote:RDWHAHB

Andrea Ferrara wrote:heres something you guys miss from your posting those "less expensive tents" you post about

Poles, ropes and tent stakes are not included with our tents. We can provide an instruction sheet for making the poles required (2 X 4's and 2 X 2's) for the specific tent.

You may add tent stakes to your tent order, or purchase them separately below.

i added the tent to my cart and it came out to way above 500, not including a ground cloth when the soulpad includes it all

Dauyd already addressed this. You must have goofed something up somewhere.

also ive helped someone setup one of those wall tents....they are NOT single man job tents by far

Not the ones I posted you didn't. If you had, you'd know it's a one-person job. That's the point of the design. A 10-year-old girl can set up a center-pole marquee by herself. Wall tents, or any tent with ridge, is another matter, but Maeryk already addressed this.

Seriously, Andrea, what's your beef with a tent appropriate to the SCA's period? I mean, if you want a Soulpad so desperately, go buy one, fer Crissake. If you're comfortable with it looking medieval-ish enough for your purposes, that's fine by me. I just don't want you to come back to the Archive with questions about the more appropriate tent in a year's time. If you dare to post moaning about how much your new medieval tent is going to cost - you know, the one you'll want to buy to replace your Soulpad - I will personally introduce myself at the next EK Southern Region event so I can point and laugh at you.

Tell you what: Let's get together and have a beer or something so I can get you over this fear you seem to have of an appropriate tent.

I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.





Cheers!

Bob

tbh my main problem is the lack of a floor, sod cloth, and how it seemed like at gulf wars only the nice tents (panthers and whatnot) are the only ones that didnt leak and also took several people to help setup, i dont have floor rugs to make a floor or a nice cloth tarp, part of my problem of period vs soulpad is the soulpad ill be able to walk bare foot inside, not in a period tent unless i got rugs or some other item that covers up and is fine to walk on

also i didnt notice the ones you suggested bob they are nice but still same issues, but im willing to hear solutions to this issue. being that the ones you linked possibly could be done 1 man (wont mean it wont be a pita though)