The Armour Archive

Halvgrimr wrote:Your coming across as kind of a dick

*you're

Andrea Ferrara wrote:tbh my main problem is the lack of a floor, sod cloth, and how it seemed like at gulf wars only the nice tents (panthers and whatnot) are the only ones that didnt leak and also took several people to help setup, i dont have floor rugs to make a floor or a nice cloth tarp, part of my problem of period vs soulpad is the soulpad ill be able to walk bare foot inside, not in a period tent unless i got rugs or some other item that covers up and is fine to walk on

The first sunday night of Gulf Wars this year, the night the huge rainstorm came down, I was sleeping on an air mattress on the floor of a friend's wall tent. He doesn't have a ground cloth. Just a huge tarp from a hardware store. His tent does have sod cloths though (the "mud flaps" as some call 'em). They were correctly tucked under the tarp.

We didn't get a spot of water in the tent. I was right up against the wall (about 2" from it) and kept feeling it to see if it was leaking. Nope...not a drop.

Also, trenching ones tent helps in keeping the ground water out. That goes for nylon and period tents.

Halvgrimr, noted and thank you. I appreciate the sanity check.

Andrea, I deeply apologize for getting frustrated. I will explain why I have been frustrated below. Now, to business:

Others have noted how well trenching works. Heed that knowledge. No matter what kind of tent you have, trenching works.

Cloth tarps can be had from Lowes and Home Depot, and can easily be afforded with the savings. In fact, I have a day shade comprised entirely of ingredients from Home Depot; looks like something expensive from Tentsmiths, and actually cost me less than $50, poles, stakes and all. I still recommend a plastic tarp beneath your painter's-cloth floor - especially at a long event like Pennsic - to keep the gunk off the bottom. Then you can walk barefoot to your heart's content. In fact, I have been buying colored canvas scrap from Panther at Pennsic the last couple of years. 2-3' squares of treated canvas for $2-3 each. I just put 'em down overlapping on the ground. Bang. Floor.

You talk about issues. What issues? There is no "possibly could be done 1 man (wont mean it wont be a pita though)". There IS NO issue with that. It's not "possibly" done by one man, it's routinely and easily done by one man: Me. I have told you over and again that A. Center-pole marquee tents are specifically designed to be set up by one person, and B. I routinely set up two 18x18' center-pole marquees by myself. I am not Superman. I have no special powers or the infinite knowledge of life, the universe and everything. I just follow the instructions and set up the damn tents. Is it a PITA? Yes. Surely. Then again, setting up any tent is an exercise in PITA. I've damn near lost an eye to those bungee-loaded fibreglass poles on a dome tent, for example. So PITA is as PITA does, as Forrest would say. There is two major differences between the Soulpad design and a center-pole marquee: The marquee's walls are higher and it requires wall poles. The technology is the same. In fact, the wall height is another reason the center-pole marquee is a superior choice (beyond price and looks), because you get So. Much. More. livable space with 6' high walls!

You write of "solutions." You don't need a solution, because there is no problem except in your head! Like many SCAdians, you're really, really, really over-thinking this. You're creating problems where none exist. Stop doing that and trust. Trust those of us who have done this before. You do not have to go this alone.

That's what's been frustrating me in this thread: I and others have been trying like hell to help you get over yourself, and you're not listening. You're hanging on to this notion that a some modern thing is easier and cheaper and just as good as a period thing when none of that is true. You've been shown that again and again. Time to stop being so stubborn and, as Nanny Ogg might tell a recalcitrant denizen of Discworld, "Be told."

Cheers!

Bob

I, also, made an entire dayshade from stuff I bought from Lowe's, except for the tent stakes, ridge beam connector, and some scrap leather I had lying around.





Painter's drop cloth (fairly thick weave, not the thin cheap ones), some 2x2's, galvanized gutter nails (which I cut the heads off of), and two 2x4's, as well as some rope. The ridge sleeve I did purchase from Blockade Runner for $20. I maybe have $30 in the rest of it. The stakes I already owned, but you can get them from any blacksmith (or from Blockade Runner) pretty cheaply. The "keepers" on the ropes I made from scrap wood I already had lying around.

I used some scrap, armour grade leather for my "grommets" and sewed them on by hand while sitting in my tent at an event.

All told, took me about 2 hours to build that entire day shade. That includes cutting the wood to length, running it through my router to round the edges, drilling the holes and gluing in the spikes.

My Panther marquee has been through numerous incredibly wet Arizona monsoon seasons and it's never leaked. If you tuck your floor between the sod flaps like you're supposed to, you shouldn't have any problems. If you are lazy and don't set your tent up properly you're going to possibly get some water in it. My panther has been through seriously high winds and crazy dust storms and it's come out looking like brand new after years of use. Will the soul pad do the same? I'm not convinced. Arizona gets weird weather at every event I go to.

The soul pad is cool and it looks nice for the ease of setting up, but when I get a smaller tent for just myself I will probably get a bell wedge or something. THe price just doesn't justify itself well enough to me to not get a historical tent.

My FCS tent has seen rain as well, particularly, the Rapture Rainstorm of last year's Border Raids, Where the sudden storm and wind detroyed more than one pop-up. Didn't leak, didn't fall down.

Here's my beef with this.

You are recreating the middle ages.

From what I understand (although I havent seen it myself) some folk bring thier lazy boy arm chairs to sit in because they otherwise cant be bothered. That is not medieval camping. Most Rennies would have better since.

What do you have against period encampments? Are you afraid of a little water? Do you even want to participate in medieval camping or should you just settle for a rousing game of Dungeons and Dragons around the kitchen table in close proximity to your remote controls and cheesy puffs?

Bring only into your camp what can survive the weather and was meant for camping. I hide the plastic bins underneath a standard Army-style cot, covered with a cloth. Anything else that's not period or in a period container, I leave in the car. I've never used a tarp ground cloth. Some hay makes great flooring. Carpets aren't necessary. Do you think most of the people who "went off to war" had brocade carpets to stand on inside thier tents?

Here's our Lowes tarp tents. The poles were cut in the forest, the rope we made, and the stakes we made; total cash outlay around $35. And I've set it by myself with no problems.





With two extra poles it converts to into a awning. It also was great for showing the public that "yes, we really do sleep in there".

Ceadda wrote:. Do you think most of the people who "went off to war" had brocade carpets to stand on inside thier tents?

I do hope a gentleman would have his minions carry his carpets for his tent, so he can campaign in appropriate style

In all seriousness, Essex is documented about having lots of his campaigning things thrown out of his carriage,so the wounded could be carried instead, so clearly SOME luxury was occuring.

Antonio wrote:

Ceadda wrote:. Do you think most of the people who "went off to war" had brocade carpets to stand on inside thier tents?

I do hope a gentleman would have his minions carry his carpets for his tent, so he can campaign in appropriate style

In all seriousness, Essex is documented about having lots of his campaigning things thrown out of his carriage,so the wounded could be carried instead, so clearly SOME luxury was occuring.

Sure, if you're a wealthy lord with half a dozen servants to handle your baggage and set up your tent for you. But since most people in the SCA are serf-free and one of the big complaints are being able to set it up alone, I'm thinking thats not the case.

Now I have no proof to base this off of, but my gut feeling is that those who use mundane tents aka "pimples" and/or justify things like the soulpad, are also probably running around in white new balance sneakers and cotton t-tunics with shiny trim.

so that sounded bad and judgemental of me. I understand there are reasons.

If youre new to the game, its not expected to be 100% accurate or have the entire set up, thats something you build up to.

As for the cost, its already been argued that in the long run, period is cheaper than modern.

Personally, I'm all for hospitallity. I've lent out some of my nicest garb to people at thier first and second events and helped them make thier own. And I happily invite enven those people whom I've yet to get to know to share my shade of my tent.

and in case I didnt make it clear, I'm sorry if I've offended you.

Bearing in mind that "most" people who went to war would be common men who'd either be billetted in the nearest town or have to curl up under a nice cosy hedge for the night. If you're wealthy enough to be able to lug full harness, weapons and a pavilion arround with you on campaign, whats a few carpets whilst you're at it?

Edit: Just remembered theres a plate in Osprey's Warrior: Border Reiver showing a camp being looted. It has a quote regarding Flodden 1513, saying "Never within the memory of man had the Scots so much wealth in thier camp, for they took with them all thier vessels of silver and gold... had with them 4,000 feather beds... and innumerable wagons laden with various effects and provisions"

There is no good way to "deal" with non period camps in the SCA.
The camp we are part of has a canvas only rule. We also ask that everyone have an appropriate chair, meaning not an obviously modern chair. Grimr built great plywood tables and chairs that are stained and routed and totally not period but look the part. It is the way the camp operates and I'm sure someone will say we are excluding newcomers. We have all been playing a while and it has taken years to get to the point we are at. That being said, we have extra tents that can be loaned to the newcomers.
If you are personally offended by nylon, set the example. Our camp setup at Pennsic last year has inspired a midrealm peer to up his game.
If you are offended by uncovered chairs, nylon tents and modern crap everywhere, help those folk to improve their kit. It's tough! I have had an open shop policy for over 10 years. All I asked is that they pay for the material. My labor was free! In all of those years I have had 5 people take me up on it and all of those people were peers, so they have been playing for a while.
If everyone else is putting sweat equity into their kit i stand to reason it will set an example others will follow. THe ones that will bitch will do so regardless of the circumstance.

Egill

I've been prodding my apprentice to make some renaissance metal folding chairs base on the one in Oppi Untracht's Metal Techniques for Craftsmen and perhaps a roman example or two for guests... Not as light and easily carried as the modern ones but he's a large lad and takes special modern chairs too!

Ceadda wrote:and in case I didnt make it clear, I'm sorry if I've offended you.

Ceadda,

We disagree quite strongly on at least two subjects that we both hold near our hearts. You have NEVER been rude through all our discussions. I quite doubt you are physically capable of being rude.

(Yes, this is a slight sidetrack, but I figured a long overdue compliment was in order).

May you always have more manners than I,

-Aaron

I used to be reluctant to invest in a periodish tent. However, I started buying some smallish (7 feet high, 8-1/2 feet long, 7 feet wide) wedge tents from James Townsend and Son, which sells gear for 18th- and early-19th-century reenactors. I've used them at two Pennsics and a few other events. They're made of Sunforger canvas, treated for water and flame resistance. Townsend sells pole sets and ground cloths for each tent. Each pole comes in two pieces with a sleeve already installed.

Wedge tents offer less inside space than most other designs, but they're extremely good at resisting wind and rain. Having a couple of small tents instead of one big tent allows my husband and me to configure our tent setup in different ways, since we have limited space in our Pennsic encampment. We usually use one tent for sleeping, with a couple of backpacking cots,* and the other tent for storage, with a canvas awning stretched between the two tents.

I've been experimenting with different things for ground cloths. At the hardware store, I found heavy-duty painters' dropcloths in a tan textured vinyl. They're a bit pricey, but they're waterproof and they worked well at last Pennsic, which had frequent rain.

A good place to get treated canvas tarps in a wide range of sizes is http://www.tarps.com/canvas.htm.

*Go-Kots (campingcot.com), which someone here on the Archive recommended. Well worth the price.

I am familiar with the set up you are referring to, most often called a Long House style set up. They seem to be quite effective, especially for families or close friends. You end up with two private rooms on either end and a shared space in the middle.

Ceadda wrote:

Antonio wrote:

Ceadda wrote:. Do you think most of the people who "went off to war" had brocade carpets to stand on inside thier tents?

I do hope a gentleman would have his minions carry his carpets for his tent, so he can campaign in appropriate style

In all seriousness, Essex is documented about having lots of his campaigning things thrown out of his carriage,so the wounded could be carried instead, so clearly SOME luxury was occuring.

Sure, if you're a wealthy lord with half a dozen servants to handle your baggage and set up your tent for you. But since most people in the SCA are serf-free and one of the big complaints are being able to set it up alone, I'm thinking thats not the case.

Now I have no proof to base this off of, but my gut feeling is that those who use mundane tents aka "pimples" and/or justify things like the soulpad, are also probably running around in white new balance sneakers and cotton t-tunics with shiny trim.

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii29 ... 43_158.jpg

just saying

We have a 1940s tent in our camp. But the guy who brings it also does WWII reenacting, so he gets a pass. It would be silly for anybody else to buy one for SCA amd spend that kind of money when there are options that are cheaper, more accjrate, and just as watertight if you set them up right.

william wrote:

luther1969 wrote:I am by far a period nazi

Of course you are not - because this is a realy stupid description for somebody working hard to achieve a proper kit and display. As it is also hurting some, may I suggest staying away from using it? Thank you!

Cheers,
William

When I see posts like the original post, or others that seem to "shun" people who dont have a few hundred let alone thousands of dollars to blow on a period pavilion that may or may not be period for their persona, it saddens me.

I myself use a Coleman tent, mainly because I only go and camp at 2 or 3 events a year, but I camp with family at NON-SCA activities twice that amount easily a year. So it is more cost affective to get a modern Coleman tent and use it for both activities. And for a good 10 years I was with out a truck, You try packing a Pavilion with poles in a 1995 Nissan 300ZX, it has 9.6 cubic feet of cargo space. Thats enough for my armour, weapon, shield, cooler, and sleeping gear.

I love the look of a period camp site, but sometimes its just not fiscally possible, or physically possible.

What we do in my local barony is, when we are camping together, is we try and place all the period tents around the outside edge and the modern tents on the interior of the camp site.

I exclusively use my canvas A-frame tents (12x16 and a smaller 10x12) at mundane camping events. Unless I am backpacking, I will never camp in a nylon tent again.

I wasn't going to post to this thread, but I couldn't resist a little stealth bragging - I used to pack up my 13' round pavillion, all its sundry stakes and centerpole, a double sized wooden bed frame with a mattress pad and air mattress, bedding for said bed, a full sized but collapsible wooden table, two collapsible but wooden chairs, a collapsible wooden night stand table, two rugs, a large tarp, all of my armour (14th century churburg 13 based kit), my shield, two swords, a polearm, a suitcase full of garb, a large cooler, a feast gear box, and a couple of bags of dry goods/supplies...

...in this:


Just sayin'

If you have the will, you will find the way.

Kelby wrote:Unless I am backpacking, I will never camp in a nylon tent again.

+1!

Aaron, the above pictured Yaris is damned close to a Mini in size - I know my buddy's Mini was really close to it, but I have no idea what the mini's usable space is like. I used to joke that they should have named the Yaris the Tardis instead.

Woeg wrote:Aaron, the above pictured Yaris is damned close to a Mini in size - I know my buddy's Mini was really close to it, but I have no idea what the mini's usable space is like. I used to joke that they should have named the Yaris the Tardis instead.

Which has more space than this....



Which is what I took to events for many years. Largest pole I can fit in it is a 4ft, maybe a 4ft 6in pole if I put it diagnally across the back hatch.

The Nissan 300ZX (Z32) coupe, has 9.6cu.ft of cargo space.
Toyota Yaris (2007-11) 3dr, 25.7cu.ft.

You dont realize how little space there is in a Z, until you own one.

If I could fit a 6'-6" tall, fat me with a 13" mohawk into the back of an '81 280zx, you could fit a tent into your 300zx.

This, right here, just makes me hate you with envy.

Said ibn-Ali wrote:1995 Nissan 300ZX

If you can do this, with one of these:



...I'm sure you can figure out how to get poles to an event.

And you can afford the roof rack to carry them because of all the money you saved not buying a Soulpad.

In all seriousness I'm considering this solution for my Hyundai Elantra because the truck I have shouldn't really be trusted on long trips.

asbrand wrote:If you can do this, with one of these:



...I'm sure you can figure out how to get poles to an event.

Glass T-Tops, so no roof racks.

Actually after a quick google search, Boofsquire (which is compatible with the Yakima system) offers a variety of roof racks for the 300zx

Said ibn-Ali wrote:
When I see posts like the original post, or others that seem to "shun" people who dont have a few hundred let alone thousands of dollars to blow on a period pavilion that may or may not be period for their persona, it saddens me.

I myself use a Coleman tent, mainly because I only go and camp at 2 or 3 events a year, but I camp with family at NON-SCA activities twice that amount easily a year. So it is more cost affective to get a modern Coleman tent and use it for both activities. And for a good 10 years I was with out a truck, You try packing a Pavilion with poles in a 1995 Nissan 300ZX, it has 9.6 cubic feet of cargo space. Thats enough for my armour, weapon, shield, cooler, and sleeping gear.

I love the look of a period camp site, but sometimes its just not fiscally possible, or physically possible.

What we do in my local barony is, when we are camping together, is we try and place all the period tents around the outside edge and the modern tents on the interior of the camp site.

Seriously, what's the difference between what you see as "shunning" and what you describe in your last paragraph? I don't think anybody is saying that we should shun people in non-period tents, call them names, ignore them, etc. That's silly. I think we can all work together to realize that some careful placement can help the aesthetics of the event for everybody.

FWIW, Jeff used to take a 14" round pavilion with poles and all of his armour to events in a Ford Probe, without a roof rack. YMMV. I also carried a banquet table in my VW Beetle one time. The looks of astonishment I got, especially after snarky comments from bystanders while watching me load it, made it all worthwhile.

Charlotte J wrote:

Said ibn-Ali wrote:
When I see posts like the original post, or others that seem to "shun" people who dont have a few hundred let alone thousands of dollars to blow on a period pavilion that may or may not be period for their persona, it saddens me.

I myself use a Coleman tent, mainly because I only go and camp at 2 or 3 events a year, but I camp with family at NON-SCA activities twice that amount easily a year. So it is more cost affective to get a modern Coleman tent and use it for both activities. And for a good 10 years I was with out a truck, You try packing a Pavilion with poles in a 1995 Nissan 300ZX, it has 9.6 cubic feet of cargo space. Thats enough for my armour, weapon, shield, cooler, and sleeping gear.

I love the look of a period camp site, but sometimes its just not fiscally possible, or physically possible.

What we do in my local barony is, when we are camping together, is we try and place all the period tents around the outside edge and the modern tents on the interior of the camp site.

Seriously, what's the difference between what you see as "shunning" and what you describe in your last paragraph? I don't think anybody is saying that we should shun people in non-period tents, call them names, ignore them, etc. That's silly. I think we can all work together to realize that some careful placement can help the aesthetics of the event for everybody.

FWIW, Jeff used to take a 14" round pavilion with poles and all of his armour to events in a Ford Probe, without a roof rack. YMMV. I also carried a banquet table in my VW Beetle one time. The looks of astonishment I got, especially after snarky comments from bystanders while watching me load it, made it all worthwhile.

sorry but im gonna have to troll you on this XD

jeff must be a pixie in size to fit in a 14" round pavillion ROFLMAO!!!!

also that would explain why he could fit so much XD

Gobae wrote:Actually after a quick google search, Boofsquire (which is compatible with the Yakima system) offers a variety of roof racks for the 300zx

HAHAHA, no really, are you serious?

If you put any weight on that, or even a center pole to a pavilion on that, you would be risking crushing your rear window, which by the way, is a VERY expensive item to replace on a Z32. Having worked for Nissan as a technician for several years, I would never recommend such a contraption for anything other than bikes.