The Armour Archive

I'm not exactly sure where to post this...
I figured that this was pretty much as close as it gets to a fitting category.

I've seen some people fighting in "wraps". They are using something or other to simulate Winingas or Winkelbands or what ever you call them. I've seen a few pics on the Internet but can't figure out what they are. Here are some pics

http://www.chiptalbert.com/photo-album/ ... es/041.htm

http://www.chiptalbert.com/photo-album/ ... es/016.htm

http://www.chiptalbert.com/photo-album/ ... es/021.htm

The brown ones have a black "tab" on them so I'm thinking Velcro...

I just bought some horse leg wraps to try and they are a little too fury for my liking. Either way I don't believe those to be they.

Any ideas?

Thanks, Chazz

Most of the ones you pointed out ARE winningas. Basically a 120" long peice of 4-6" wide fabric with hemmed ends that either tie under the knee (think sword knot) or use little hooks right under the knee (some hooks can be found a www.quietpress.com). I use wool for mine.

I think the little black tab on the one picture may be tape?

Russ

Actually all of those linked above are horse wraps except the ones worn by Sir Iain, (the Knight in the Chain - those are the real deal 18ft of wrapped canvas) the young fellow beside him is Matthew of Auk, he's wearing the horsewrap with ties. Horse wraps come in two types, with "ties" and with "Velcro". The ones with ties tend to not be as stretchy and look more period. The ones with Velcro tend to be polar fleece, and are more stretchy (wash them a couple of times and it will fix the over fuzziness of them).

If you want I can give you a link to both types.

[img]http://www.chiptalbert.com/photo-album/SCA/grand-tournament/fight/images/gt-fight-016.jpg[/img]

A link to the type with the ties would be great.

You are exactly right about the polar fleece-esque of the ones with the velcro. I'll try washing them up a bunch and see if that works. Thanks for the tip.

Chazz

Here is an amazing article on this subject:
http://users.bigpond.net.au/quarfwa/mik ... wraps1.htm

Old military puttees are one possibility, though they'll usually be olive-army green.

- Patrick/Mael Patraic

Old military puttees are one possibility, though they'll usually be olive-army green.

COMPLETELY off topic, but a question: Theres a song about world war 2 by Great Big Sea that entreats the young men of Canada to join the "Blue Puttees".. did they wear blue ones?

On topic: GREAT info! When are these things "period" for?

Maeryk

Here are the links:

with ties

or

with Velcro

-Ulrich

Thanks for the link... I've ordered some, so we'll see how they go.

I washed the others a bunch of times and they look much less fuzzy, they'll be acceptable for now... I'll pass them on to my squires later on.

Maeryk

it was the Royal Newfoundland Regiment from WW1 that wore the blue puttees, they didn't have the khaki cloth that was needed so they used blue instead. Most of the Regiment was killed at the battle of the Somme. 801 went over the trench and only 69 were at the next roll call.

-T

What exactly are these leg wraps period for?

Aedhan wrote:What exactly are these leg wraps period for?

I'm not totaly sure I actually understand your question... so I'll attack it a couple of different ways.

When are they peroid for?
Pretty much Dark Ages to Norman Conquest

What are they for?
There are many theories.
Leg Warmers (but why not just longer socks or more layers over all)

To keep low brush from cutting at the leg (but why not longer boots, or a leather gaiter... yes gaiter not garter).

I think it's probably a combo of the both... I've been dreaming of doing a weekend event where all I bring is viking peroid gear and go hiking for the weekend. I forget what they call it when you do reenactment experiments like that but I though it'd be cool.

Chazz

Actually, from experience wearing them, they also work very well to keep hose in place and can act as a support bandage for the legs when you are on your feet all day at an event.

Thanks Chazz,
I meant what period wore these wraps. But the extra info about what they were actually for was very helpful as well!
Thanks again
Aedhan

re fuzziness

If your wearing wool wraps, 'fuzzy' is what you want.
It means they are fulled and they will wear alot easier (ie they dont slide)

IMO, the horse wraps are very obvious up close.

I tie mine off behind the knee btw


Halv

Chazz,

I believe the term is emperimental archeology.

Buy some boiled wool /felted wool and you don't even have to hem them. A 1/2 yard of wool at the typical 60' width is enough for a pair. Cut into four strips of 4" wide x 60" long. Sew 2 lengths together t create two strips at 4" x 120". It is better if the wool is a little stretchy. Canvas is a poor choice because it does not stretch.

Making them is very easy. The real trick is learning how to wrap them onto your leg. I like to safety pin the bottom to my shoe or sock and start wrapping. The first wrap will hide the safety pin. You will need a bit of finess to get the puttee to wrap smoothly around the bulge of the calf. One trick is to fold a twist into it. Another is to wrap steeply upwards then start down again once you have covered the top bulge of the calf. It is difficult to explain in words---you will have to experiment. Lastly, you can secure the top end with a hidden pin, by tucking or by having a foot or so of sewn-on "leader" of narrow woven braid to wrap around and tuck at the top.

Hehe...this topic deserves it's own how-to website!

Cheers,
Tim

i have a pair of fulled wool strips about 2"x16'. They are unhemmed and have a bronze hook with a simple knotwork design on one end. I'm told the hook is cast from a find of some sort, but I've never seen the original.

I made these because my research into dark age socks came to a frustrating dead end. I wrap these starting at the ball of the foot with a double wrap like a crepe bandage, and wrap overlapping just like a bandage up the foot, around the ankle and up to under the knee. At the top, the hook slips into the fabric weave exactly like a bandage clip. Turn shoes go on over the top.

I find them warm and comfortable over several days of consecutive use, except on rare occasions that the hook manages to dig into my leg which, with practice, is happening less and less often.

elden wrote:I made these because my research into dark age socks came to a frustrating dead end.

Maybe something in one of these places will prove useful:

http://www.cs.vassar.edu/~capriest/

http://www.stringpage.com/

Here's a set of bronze winningas hoohs that I sell (photo below: lower right):

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v87/finkas/AnlgoSaxonHeadHook.jpg[/img]

Cheers,
Tim

I received the horse wraps with ties linked above... They are going to be great for the fighting field. I'm getting some woven ones for my soft kit. Since they are going to get jacked up fighting the horse ones will do nicely.

Also. As far as hook tags go, I have a couple real ones from finds. Also the Small finds of Fishergate book has a couple in there. The ones I have and the ones in the book all look like they were made from sheet, and decorated with punches. I guess they could have casted them, though I haven't seen and evidence of this (I'm not saying I actually know, I'm saying I don't actually know).

Chaz

Elden,

dark age naalbound socks are known from a number of places (Switzerland, Scandinavia or York for example). Owen Crocker in the new edition of "Dress in Aglo-Saxon England" also makes a good case for separate socks and trousers (in the 10th and 11th century section for men's clothes), but the material is not known. Later literary evidence refers to linen sock worn with footed hose which makes a lot of sense again (since the hose probably wasn't washed..) The socks would have been sewn of cloth, not worked in any way, though. Existant sewn socks (but from wool) from the 10th century are also on display in the Museum in Reykjavik, Iceland.

While legwraps would probably keep you warm if wrapped around the foot as well, nothing beats the insulatig effect of the stiches created by naalbinding or knitting to keep the foot warm. Since knitting is not an option.....

Hope this helps,

Caithlinn

what are the commercially available horse wraps made of? Canvas? I cant tell from the website...

Thorfinn wrote:what are the commercially available horse wraps made of? Canvas? I cant tell from the website...

The ones I have seen are some sort of stretchy, synthetic material akin to ACE bandages/wraps.

Halv

Ok, so you could concieveably use hooks if ya wanted to...good to know.

Very nice hooks Tim

Cam
http://community.webshots.com/user/grnshield

I just ordered the last set of hook tags Tim had in stock (HA!).
I usually just make my own out of a small piece of brass and grind the shape into them, and stamp them with some design or another. But the ones above look awesome, and I just had to have them!

chazz

Tim, I know this is an older thread, but are you thinking about producing another run of hooks? If so, could you PM me a price?

Much thanks.

(Edited due to lack of coffee.)

I have Tims "hooks" as well, they are wonderfull as is all his work.
Tim i wish you were able to do it full time.

Thanks for the kind comments. I'll get some more cast up and make an announcement on AA. I think I am charging $16.00 a pair, postpaid (in the Cont US).

Cheers,
Tim

Timothy D. Finkas wrote:Thanks for the kind comments. I'll get some more cast up and make an announcement on AA. I think I am charging $16.00 a pair, postpaid (in the Cont US).

Cheers,
Tim

Sounds good, Tim. Just give me a holler when you're ready, I'll Paypal you the payment.

Timothy D. Finkas wrote:Buy some boiled wool /felted wool and you don't even have to hem them. A 1/2 yard of wool at the typical 60' width is enough for a pair. Cut into four strips of 4" wide x 60" long. Sew 2 lengths together to create two strips at 4" x 120". It is better if the wool is a little stretchy. Canvas is a poor choice because it does not stretch.

Tim, do I ask at the local fabric store for "boiled wool/felted wool"? I guess I mean to ask is it that common?