Oh god, the pain!

LordDraco3 · Post by **LordDraco3** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 1:10 am

I have recently purchased my first bit of armour. It's only a very tiny (youth size according to where I got it, it would hardly fit other people besides myself) butted maile shirt with 4-in-1 body and 6-in-1 shoulders, and only weights about 10-15 lbs, but IT HURTS SO MUCH. I'm wearing it to school all week for the entire day so that I can get used to the weight little by little (because I know I'll have to wear at least 50-60 more lbs of armour that is supported by my back) so that I can wear it to Scarborough Fair this weekend, but my back hurts immensly. I'm not doing a lot of running or walking, or even standing, but just sitting when I move my back around my spine begins to feel horribly compressed. It also didn't seem to be because of the length of time that I was wearing it, because as soon as I put it on I twisted around to strech some, and my back hurt even then.

I'm only about 5'6" and about 105 lbs, should this be hurting? Should I get a back brace? Should I even wear armour for longer than a given period of time? I have never had back problems before (Tryed an inversion table last Sunday, it did nothing for me at all even when completely verticle =\ ), but it feels like wearing armour will have them develop, really fast.

Konstantin the Red · Post by **Konstantin the Red** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 1:17 am

Where is the pain exactly? Lower back or across each shoulder from the shirt digging in?

Vladimir · Post by **Vladimir** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 5:51 am

my maille byrnie used to dig into the points of my shoulder, I laced the neck hole and made it smaller. Its fine now.

Jehan de Pelham · Post by **Jehan de Pelham** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 6:05 am

Just as a point of personal pride and a little guidance on the wily ways of manhoode, never refer to your armor as "petite size."

:lol:

And yes, your muscles will develop in accordance with your harness. Exercises can help.

John
Jehan de Pelham, esquire and servant of Sir Vitus
www.mron.org

ThorvaldR Skegglauss · Wed Apr 19, 2006 6:13 am

Wear a belt around it and blouse it some so that your hips take some of the weight. The strain on your shoulders will pull on your lower back. I wear maile as well and I broke my back 10 years ago and have relevant problems but I wear mine and fight all day at events as well. Sure my back aches a bit after that but it gets easier in time. As Jehan says, you will grow stronger with time.

Thorald

ThorvaldR Skegglauss · Wed Apr 19, 2006 6:15 am

Henry of Bexley · Post by **Henry of Bexley** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 6:54 am

Also- make sure that your posture is perfect while sitting there. As a fellow student, I know how those desks tempt you to slouch over and take a nap... well, that last part is just me.

If you keep up with wearing this, it'll definitly make your lower back muscles rock solid. Just make sure they're rock solid in the right position or you might be in trouble.

LordDraco3 · Post by **LordDraco3** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 7:52 am

I more or less slump over than slouch in my desk, especially when..uhh..."resting." But for today I'll attempt the belt and sitting up.

The pain is in my lower back. Not really my muscles, but it feels like my spine is having trouble keeping up with the added weight.

Oh boy, I'll have to do this all over again when I get heavier armour...

James B. · Post by **James B.** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 8:03 am

I wore this get up for 8 hours at MTA:

http://www.replications.com/greys/Image ... 180001.jpg

25 pounds of maille and a 7 pound Jack. My feet and shoulders were killing me by the time I took it off and percentage wise your are increasing your weight allot more than I did.

If you are not wearing a belt at the waist of the maille already I suggest doing so, it helps distribute the weight to you hips instead of the shoulders and lower back.

Adriano · Post by **Adriano** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 9:30 am

I highly recommend some kind of padding on your shoulders, under the mail; that'll help spread the load a bit.

. . . I know I'll have to wear at least 50-60 more lbs of armour that is supported by my back . . .

Draco, what kind of armour do you have in mind for your final kit? 50-60 pounds -- in addition to the mail, if I read you right -- is a lot. I don't wear that much on my torso and I'm twice your weight. There's very protective armour that doesn't weigh that much, and folks here much more expert than I can tell you all about it.

Wanted to add that, even though you're apparently very young, it's possible to screw your back up for life at an early age. By 21, I had a herniated disk that's affected me ever since. So please, take care of your body; it's the only one you've got. Rock on.

olaf haraldson · Post by **olaf haraldson** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 9:41 am

I'm in your weight class, and I wear 23 lbs of maille, plus lamellar, gambeson, helmet, etc... 50lbs or so, and I have went in the neighborhood of 12 hours in it before. Use a belt, that will help. gambeson or thick tunic will help as well.

All that said, if it is hurting too much, stop. You may have a problem with your back. If it continues, maybe see a doctor or athletic trainer to get advice on strengthening exercises and the like.

LordDraco3 · Post by **LordDraco3** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 3:00 pm

I'm almost through the day now with the belt and my back is feeling completely fine, though my shoulders are feeling a lot more tired, it's not painful.

I plan on wearing a coat of plates, a much larger riveted hauberk (this one goes to my waist and is only butted), pauldrons, guantlets, etc. I know that it all shouldn't be too heavy considering my size, but I know that weight adds up. That, and a lorica segmenta on ebay made from mild steel weighed 50 lbs (which would have ben another options I was looking at--I just don't fel like messing with mild steel).

I suppose I should put off working on my arms/legs and focus on strengthening my shoulders and back, after feeling just what a small shirt of maille does.

My problem yesterday also could have been due to the fact that I had to sit in some gym bleachers for 4 solid hours. Those aren't comfortable by any means no matter what I'm wearing...

Laurie Wise · Post by **Laurie Wise** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 2:25 am

In the early SCA years, I knew a few who wore their mail byrnies under clothing to get used to the weight. This was when alot of mail was made from screendoor springs.

One story out of Angels was told to us by Bob Ament (who died in November 2004...long time SCA member and merchant) about a fighter who habitually wore his under clothing while working as Liquor store clerk. This is from the early 70s. One afternoon a guy came in and asked for a bottle of whiskey behind the clerk. When he did, the guy pulled a knife...intending to use it to rob the store..... and stuck it in the clerk's back. To the robber's surprise, instead of dropping to the floor, the clerk turned and proceeded to beat the crap out of the robber. Then called the cops. When they came, all they saw was a beatup guy on the floor with the clerk standing nearby....."what happened?".

"This SOB tried to rob me and did this" turning to point to the jammed knife in his back. The mail links grabbed and kept the knife from going any further. Bob came by to see his friend and remembered witnessing the sight of a cop pulling hard to get the knife unjammed. The wound itself was not that deep. If the clerk/fighter had not worn his mail shirt.....it would have been worse.

audax · Post by **audax** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 5:01 am

If you want a strong back, learn how to deadlift. That one exercise will hit every muscle in your posterior chain as well as your traps and abs. Get good instruction, use good form and it will make your spinal erectors like steel columns, which will in turn make wearing armor less stressful on your back AND help you hit like a ton of bricks.

YMMV.

Regards,

audax

Adriano · Post by **Adriano** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 7:40 am

Draco, if you're planning to get riveted mail in the future, the good news about that is that riveted is typically lighter than butted. This is because, with the rings riveted shut, you can use thinner wire.

RedHandArmoury · Post by **RedHandArmoury** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 8:51 am

"I plan on wearing a coat of plates, a much larger riveted hauberk (this one goes to my waist and is only butted), pauldrons, guantlets, etc. "

My suggestion, since you are already going to be wearing the coat of plates to protect your body, is that you don't need a full hauberk. If you are using this for SCA combat, then mail doesn't offer alot of protection, but I'll be damned if it doesn't look great. Because it doesn't help much with protection from heavy blows, not too many people use it, so the ones that do stand out even more. What you should look at doing, is faking a hauberk. This is exactly what I did. I wear a coat of plates on my torso, so I made some mail sleeves and the bottom of a shirt that hangs out the bottom. Take a look at it here.

http://www.chainmailleboard.com/forums/ ... =8&t=8914&

(if you have trouble with the link, go to www.chainmailleboard.com, register and log in. Then look under chainmaille gallery at the topic "Cheating")

My stuff is combat grade 12.5 gauge aluminium 3/8 inch butted rings. The sleeves are tied under the arms with strings, and the bottom of the shirt is attached to a belt.

This saves alot of weight and gives the apperance of a full hauberk. Also, if you plan on making your own rivited mail, this will save alot of time. If you think you may want a full shirt, then I would recomend starting with the sleeves and bottom and then you can always fill in the chest and back later.

Good luck

LordDraco3 · Post by **LordDraco3** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 12:17 pm

That's a very nice idea...I never ould have thought of that

Currently there is no way that I can make my own riveted maille, but I think it would also cost a lot less than getting a full hauberk as well. I may have to think about getting someone to commision something similar to yours and have it attached to a tunic.

I do suppose I'll have to start lifting weights soon, I'm considered a toothpick by all...but after 3 days of wearing the maille (I didn't wear it thursday because my back was so tired lol. But no pain!) I can feel my back getting a little stronger, or something.

adamstjohn · Post by **adamstjohn** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 5:44 am

Draco!

Do you know the tale of the germanic hero Hagen, from the Nibelungensaga? If I recall correctly, he wore a mail byrnie night and day from his early years, to make him strong.

Cheers