On the topic of brasses and etchings

HammerHand · Post by **HammerHand** » Fri Sep 08, 2006 3:26 pm

I am trying to think of what to etch into brass accent pieces for my 14th century kit. Its Germanic, late 14th c., but did the knights request brasses for their armour with prayers or more along the lines of honour for their lords, ladies, land, and victory,etc? Am I aiming in the right direction or has the joust knocked me off the horse? Thanks for any help on this subject.

Leo Medii · Post by **Leo Medii** » Fri Sep 08, 2006 4:03 pm

I haev select bible verses related to the defense of the person by god, and on my arm harness I have the angle of god prayer along with my personal motto.

FergusStout · Post by **FergusStout** » Fri Sep 08, 2006 4:40 pm

I haven't decided on the rest of my armour yet but my helm will have "Circumdederunt me et obsederunt me sed in nomine Domini ultus sum eas." (They surrounded me and beseiged me but in the name of the Lord I will destroy them. Psalm 117:11)

Are there any examples of armour with German instead of Latin inscriptions?

Fergus

HammerHand · Post by **HammerHand** » Fri Sep 08, 2006 5:09 pm

Thats what I'm trying to find out Fergus. Latin is fine but I would like to aim more towards Germanic. I'm not a language expert but doesnt Latin influence the German tongue of old? I also am not going to put something out of the bible on my armour. No disrespect towards anyone who follows the Christian or Judeo- Christians........... you know what, I'm not even going to start on that tangent. This is niether the time nor the place. But thank you both for your responses.

FergusStout · Post by **FergusStout** » Fri Sep 08, 2006 5:10 pm

I am not in any way doing it out of a religious factor - my path is quite divergent. I am doing it because it follows period examples I have seen.

HammerHand · Post by **HammerHand** » Fri Sep 08, 2006 5:16 pm

Fergus- Please take no offense at what I said. I understand that you are following suit, and I would like to do the same. Again take no offense, please nor anyone else that reads in the future.

Konstantin the Red · Post by **Konstantin the Red** » Fri Sep 08, 2006 10:10 pm

Well, Hammer, setting aside for the moment any question of personal, well, discomfort: that WAS what they did if they did anything -- devout inscriptions, out of the Bible, and in Latin. In fourteenth-century Europe if you were the Establishment -- and how much more Establishment can you get than a military aristocracy? -- you were a Christian. Considering how naughty some aristocrats were, Christianity might have been their sole saving grace at the end.

You can see why they were going to put something devout on armor, for armor is worn in life and death situations. It's time to get serious, then, and if you're fated not to keep your life, you can try for the welfare of your soul if you credit that -- which they did. Modern-type atheism wasn't part of their mental makeup. Personally, I don't think modern-type anti-Christianity is well founded, either, but now that I've gotten that off my chest and into the record, this is neither the time nor the place to start any flamefight about that, as we are all agreed! I used to be not-very-religious, but I've changed as I've aged.

Medieval religiosity is just one of the more prominent points differentiating person from persona. It's not especially well exercised, in my experience.

Latin influenced everybody west of the Oder, but the Germans less than the peoples west and south of the Rhine, for obvious historical reasons. Germany picked up vocabulary, I think, rather than an entire language, and about four centuries post-Western Empire at that, during the empire of Charlemagne.

Gothic was a distinctive ancient language of the area, with its own alphabet, but fading fast by the fourteenth century if not already gone.

Biblical inscriptions decorating armor have been fruitfully discussed. Psalm 18, some of the Proverbs, maybe not Luke 22:36 as that amounts more to an advertisement for armorers (or used-sword salesmen), and Paul's "Put on the whole armor of God" disquisition is probably rather too abstract -- it doesn't compare with the quote about "and passing through the midst of them, he went his way" on the Churburg bascinet. Matthew? I've got a Bible open on my lap and haven't found it yet. Should get me a Concordance if I'm going to look this thing up efficiently!

Murdock · Post by **Murdock** » Sat Sep 09, 2006 1:25 am

"I have select Bible verses related to the defense of the person by god, and on my arm harness I have the angle of god prayer along with my personal motto. "

You have that latin translation handy? I may do that.

The only non Christian motto i can think of is on a Sword in the Met, it's from Virgil's Anied. "Here too Virtue has it's due reward"

As mentioned the most common was a Christian verse in Latin.

Ingvarr · Post by **Ingvarr** » Sat Sep 09, 2006 7:18 am

Konstantin the Red wrote:it doesn't compare with the quote about "and passing through the midst of them, he went his way" on the Churburg bascinet. Matthew? I've got a Bible open on my lap and haven't found it yet. Should get me a Concordance if I'm going to look this thing up efficiently!

Luke 4:30 ipse autem transiens per medium illorum ibat

Not a biblical scholar, just madd skillz. Seriously, have had this bookmarked for a long time, from another place for a different reason but for searchability as well as multiple translations, the Blue Letter Bible may be a big aid to many.

HammerHand, if you choose to go with the authenticity of biblical quotes, there are still many you can find that aren't directly religious.

- Deu 32:41 - si acuero ut fulgur gladium meum et arripuerit iudicium manus mea reddam ultionem hostibus meis et his qui oderunt me retribuam
If I whet my glittering sword, and mine hand take hold on judgment; I will render vengeance to mine enemies, and will reward them that hate me.

- Exd 22:24 - et indignabitur furor meus percutiamque vos gladio et erunt uxores vestrae viduae et filii vestri pupilli
And my wrath shall wax hot, and I will kill you with the sword; and your wives shall be widows, and your children fatherless.