let's see some original 14th century armour

Armoured Air Bear · Post by **Armoured Air Bear** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:49 am

Hi all,
since there has been a few threads on 14th century reproduction kits and just armour pieces I think it's due time to start a thread showing original pieces.

everyone's showing their stuff so we should see the originals-pieces and suits from the 14th century. let's try and get some that we don't see to often. but repetition is always good

.

let's see some of what you're kit is based off of or just any original 14th century armour.

thanks,

Aaron

Murdock · Post by **Murdock** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 10:46 am

Armoured Air Bear · Post by **Armoured Air Bear** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 11:14 am

thanks!

do you have the link with the two or three bascinets- somewhaer in england i think. it was posted here a while back then I lost the linkg.

Aaron

Amanda M · Post by **Amanda M** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 11:16 am

A couple of those look like fabric covered breastplates. Are those decorative rivet patterns? Gives me a nifty idea for what to do to spiff up my breastplate when I redo the fabric covering.

Armoured Air Bear · Post by **Armoured Air Bear** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 12:06 pm

the red one is in the Met. is was bashfordized but it still looks cool. it is called a coronzinna (many differnet spellings) aaron Toman tells me this means in Italian "little plates". If I'm not mistaken it was part of the Chalcis finds. last time I was at the met I saw several of the small breastplates and I think a few had applied lisre d'arrets. (wow I can't spell so stop ribs) on the arm openings. it's still cool IMO

the second one (yellow) there is some question on. it apperears to be a brigandine of sorts but lined in maille. I've seen it many times before but I still think it's strange.

the third is in the Bayerisches Nationalmuseum, Munich. it has decrative rivets, a hooped fauld, and holes for a lance rest. there is also a hole in the bottom middle of it which I'm not sure what it's for.

hope this helps some,

Aaron

Nissan Maxima · Post by **Nissan Maxima** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 2:57 pm

From the German National Museum

Chris Gilman · Post by **Chris Gilman** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 3:30 pm

Where is this piece? What do we know about it, any one?

Josh W · Post by **Josh W** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:23 pm

Sir Gaston wrote:Where is this piece? What do we know about it, any one?

http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB2/ ... =corazzina

If I were ever to do a late 14th century impression, I'd make one of these.

Murdock · Post by **Murdock** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:24 pm

I got the pic here

but i don't read French

http://hermineradieuse.aceboard.fr/1476 ... razina.htm

Jason Grimes · Post by **Jason Grimes** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 5:00 pm

Are we sure that is a 14th century piece? It looks more 15th or even 16th century to me.

Murdock · Post by **Murdock** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 5:10 pm

My Frech sucks buit i can read

"

Â« Plaques dâ€™acier et maille, chanvre. 1380-1410.
Inv. ARME BIANCHE 161 Â»

Plate armour and mail, hemp 1380-1410

Jason Grimes · Post by **Jason Grimes** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 5:35 pm

Yes I think I remember that text being discussed on the previous thread. It just doesn't look like the date fits. I don't have any proof of course, but I would be much more comfortable if they added a 100 years to that date range. If you look at how many rivets are being used for the small plates, how the plates are arranged, and how the arm openings are treated. It just screams later then the date range they have given for it to me. I would be curious how they came up with those dates in the first place. Maybe it would be better in a separate thread, but by what criteria would you date this by?

Armoured Air Bear · Post by **Armoured Air Bear** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 6:12 pm

thanks for the replies thus far. nissan-I haven't seen those gauntlets or visor before. I always like to seen new pieces-thanks.

I must agree about the brigandine like armour-that it seems much later. it is obviously a brigandine like armour so when were the first brigandines in use? surely not 14th cent? I would say if anything to me it looks like a very early brigandine or an expieramental one.-with the use of the maille inside that is. is there plates underneath the maille? if so then I think the date would be even later.

Thanks,

Aaron

Murdock · Post by **Murdock** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 8:00 pm

The many rivits are through mail not small plates

The small plates on the ribs are simple overlapped plates like a wisby

The large plates are easily just expanded from Wisby like designs.

Take the top 3 plates and combine them

in this case the top 2

The Arm holes ar even similar to wisby Treatment

Now take the Met suit and the 1390's covered breastplate and figure out whats halway between them and a Wisby COP.

I can see this mustard colored COP easily fitting in there.

15th century brig in general have much smaller plates, the trade make rivits in triangles, and seem to have a more "polished" look to their construction.

Though some 14th century styles have littel plates too

16th seems right out. I don't know how much restoration has been done on this but imo it's probly the approximately correct dates.

Sigurd Fjalarson · Post by **Sigurd Fjalarson** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 8:17 pm

Murdock, is that first bascinet, with the hounskull, a german piece? That helm makes me drool, i wanna make one so bad now.

juan · Post by **juan** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:30 pm

Murdock wrote:My Frech sucks buit i can read

"

Â« Plaques dâ€™acier et maille, chanvre. 1380-1410.
Inv. ARME BIANCHE 161 Â»

Plate armour and mail, hemp 1380-1410

My three years of high school French do come in handy sometimes.

The originator of that thread states that it is on display in Milan, and that he's never seen any other pieces like it, nor seen any but the most summary documentation. No one else can offer any info on it, but later on the first guy posts the restoration notes, which are in Italian. These do not offer much on the process of reconstruction, but a lot of detail on the actual material parts. An interesting bit is the repeated mention of several types of rings (anelli) including some that are "lenticular" or "like a grain of rice", which I surmise are part of the closure system, although not necessarily of a hook-and-eye system, from what I can see.

http://img319.imageshack.us/img319/3069/36ij.jpg

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/7323/compterendu8rg.jpg

Murdock · Post by **Murdock** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:55 pm

Laid out like that schematic

it looks even more like a half "corinzina" half wisby COP.

Jason Grimes · Post by **Jason Grimes** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 2:17 am

Murdock wrote:15th century brig in general have much smaller plates, the trade make rivits in triangles, and seem to have a more "polished" look to their construction.

This is one of the reasons I thought it might push this into the 16th century. The number of rivets and how they are positioned on the small plates is exactly how they did brigantine in the 16th century. If you look at the Wisby COPs, excepting the lamellar examples, the small plates are much larger in general. I don't know if you would want to make the plates any smaller then they are on this one. They seem to be of similar size to the 16th century examples I have seen. Like I said, I don't really know, I just think we should take a closer look before we accept that this is a 14th century survival. It just doesn't fit to my eye.

Ken Mondschein · Post by **Ken Mondschein** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 12:52 pm

I'll translate it if you make me one.

Young Knight · Post by **Young Knight** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 3:28 pm

Murdock wrote:16th seems right out. I don't know how much restoration has been done on this but imo it's probly the approximately correct dates.

Except the number of rivits, and their arrangement in straight lines rather than triangles, -sounds- a lot like 16th century brigs.
-Wilhelm

Murdock · Post by **Murdock** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 4:07 pm

So other than the construction and style are different it's the same??

huh

Look at the rest of the pic pf the piece.

Large single rivits

Mail not small plates
(unless there are also plates between the fabric layers)

Globose instead of pescod cut

large over lapping plates with a central large plate body defense

not many many small plates fitted and triagular rivit patterns with small rivits

The cut is wrong the design is different and the style is different.

It's not 16th centruy.

It MIGHT be 15th century and the dates given even allow for that.

Nissan Maxima · Post by **Nissan Maxima** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 4:49 pm

I think this is 14. Also from the GNM

Murdock · Post by **Murdock** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:02 pm

Just to me

that looks 15th Nissan

but all i can see is the face.

Whats cool is you can see the paint on it.

Armoured Air Bear · Post by **Armoured Air Bear** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:27 pm

the face kinda reminds me of an early bellows face sallet.

anyone else got some 14th cent armour pictures they want to share?

Aaron

Oswyn_de_Wulferton · Post by **Oswyn_de_Wulferton** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:03 pm

I have one not so great picture of the covered beastplate in the Bavarian National Museum (aka. Bayerisches Nationalmuseum).
http://www.prism.gatech.edu/~gtg834q/Europe%20Photos/Munich%20Armour/DSCN3582.JPG

Armoured Air Bear · Post by **Armoured Air Bear** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:09 pm

thanks, surprisingly enough I've never seen that breastplate in colour before :shock:

Aaron

Young Knight · Post by **Young Knight** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 2:58 pm

I also seem to remember side-openings being characteristic of later brigandines but not 15th century ones--certainly not later 15th century ones at any rate.
But then again my non-15th cent. brig-fu is weak.
-Wilhelm

Armoured Air Bear · Post by **Armoured Air Bear** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 12:48 pm

to see some more originals.

Aaron

let's see some original 14th century armour

let's see some original 14th century armour

here are a few