Questions on Late 16th Century Accessories

AvM · Post by **AvM** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 2:47 pm

I've decided that there's a number of things with my kit that could use an upgrade that I think would go a long ways towards not making me hate my presentation.

Trouble is, I can't find much information on 1570s German accessories.

I'm aiming for Reiter of lesser nobility. Nice things, but not overly ostentatious. 1570, or slightly after.

Here's what I need:

Shoes
My (admittedly spotty) research indicates that Latchet shoes would be appropriate for normal wear, and riding boots while fighting (i.e. in the saddle, as Reiter were cavalry). Am I even close?

Pouch
I've checked http://www.larsdatter.com/pouches.htm, and I don't really know what would be right. I can't really afford to buy (nor do I have the tools, time, or skill to make) a framed purse or the manner of purse that Cat was making recently. Something simple that I could buy, or if not too expensive to do so, make.

Belt
Would a sword belt be appopriate for everyday wear? With or without the sword attached? If not, what would be correct?

Thanks!

InsaneIrish · Post by **InsaneIrish** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 8:45 am

AvM wrote:Shoes
My (admittedly spotty) research indicates that Latchet shoes would be appropriate for normal wear, and riding boots while fighting (i.e. in the saddle, as Reiter were cavalry). Am I even close?

yes, Lachets seem to be very common and very popular at that time. If you look at the Mary Rose book you will see alot of information about a huge shipment of lachet style shoes that was on the ship.

Pouch
I've checked http://www.larsdatter.com/pouches.htm, and I don't really know what would be right. I can't really afford to buy (nor do I have the tools, time, or skill to make) a framed purse or the manner of purse that Cat was making recently. Something simple that I could buy, or if not too expensive to do so, make.

I know there quite a bit of evidence of Landsknechts using simple drawstring bags with tassels as money pouches. There are quite a few woodcuts that show such pouches. Basically they look to be simple square/rectangle drawstring pouches with gathered tassels at the 2 bottom corners.

Belt
Would a sword belt be appopriate for everyday wear? With or without the sword attached? If not, what would be correct?

Thanks!

I believe if you were noble then yes a sword and belt would be appropriate. But, not a sword belt without the sword. As for what kind of sword, look to the thinner rapier-esque style swords:

http://jan.ucc.nau.edu/~wew/fencing/blades.html

http://swordforum.com/articles/ams/the-schiavona.php

Jon Eppler · Post by **Jon Eppler** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 11:02 am

For German kit circa 1540-1570 that is not straight up Landsknecht look at the manuals of Joachim Meyer and Paulus Hector Mair. Mair's second book and its sidesword chapter listed as "Spanischer StoÃŸdegenfechtkampf zu FuÃŸ".

http://mdz10.bib-bvb.de/~db/bsb00006570 ... ml?seite=1

http://mdz10.bib-bvb.de/~db/bsb00007894 ... ml?seite=1

And Meyer

http://freifechter.org/cgi-bin/cowman/c ... ~60~50~107

Hope this helps. The Mair plates are just incredible.

Jon Eppler
Ld Johann Von Aue
Cadet To Don Timothy
Apprentice to Master Dairmid

AvM · Post by **AvM** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 4:14 pm

I have Meyer's book, and I've seen the Mair book.
I chose 1570 because that was the year Meyer's treatise is dated.

Neither really answer any of my questions.

And I'm not doing Landsknecht at all anymore.

Karen Larsdatter · Post by **Karen Larsdatter** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 8:34 pm

AvM wrote:Pouch
I've checked http://www.larsdatter.com/pouches.htm, and I don't really know what would be right. I can't really afford to buy (nor do I have the tools, time, or skill to make) a framed purse or the manner of purse that Cat was making recently. Something simple that I could buy, or if not too expensive to do so, make.

[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/40/St%C3%A4nde_Amman_Der_Beutler.png[/img]

This illustration is a pursemaker's shop from 1568 (from the Standebuch). It provides some of the styles that would have been fashionable around 1568.

And another bag, made in Germany towards the end of the 16th century:
http://www.bildindex.de/bilder/MI07906f08a.jpg
http://www.bildindex.de/bilder/MI07906f09a.jpg
http://www.bildindex.de/bilder/MI07906f10a.jpg

Edited to add -- the shoemaker from the Standebuch:

[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/ce/De_St%C3%A4nde_1568_Amman_056.png[/img]

AvM · Post by **AvM** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 11:27 am

Thanks, Karen!

That bag is AWESOME. I must make one.

Jon Eppler · Post by **Jon Eppler** » Fri Jun 27, 2008 3:32 pm

AvM wrote:I have Meyer's book, and I've seen the Mair book.
I chose 1570 because that was the year Meyer's treatise is dated.

Neither really answer any of my questions.

And I'm not doing Landsknecht at all anymore.

I mainly posted it as I am also a 1570's non-Landsknecht German and figured even if you had seen it someone else had not.

Gottfried · Post by **Gottfried** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 3:30 pm

anyone know the exact construction of this style of purse?

Gottfried

Uadahlrich · Post by **Uadahlrich** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 2:50 am

I'm curious about the construction as well. Any input?

Rittmeister Frye · Post by **Rittmeister Frye** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:37 am

Per sword belts, I believe that you would be wearing on with or without a sword. For a good example of this, check out the Moroni painting The Tailor, which shows a definitely non-gentry individual wearing a sword belt for the sake of fashion:

He is quite obviously wearing a sword belt, you can tell from the extra "buckle" on the right side of his belt which has a loop at the bottom of it for hooking the front of his sword-hanger to. So I would definitely wear a sword belt as a part of a Gentleman's kit, with or without a sword.

Of course, getting into that conversation, I would also recommend carrying a sword, since that would be what would distinguish a "Gentleman" and above from a mere Burgher or Peasant (even though Burghers were pushing into the strata of Gentry by wearing swords whenever they could get away with it.)

Cheers!

Gordon

Rittmeister Frye · Post by **Rittmeister Frye** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:55 am

Per sword belts, I believe that you would be wearing on with or without a sword. For a good example of this, check out the Moroni painting The Tailor, which shows a definitely non-gentry individual wearing a sword belt for the sake of fashion:

He is quite obviously wearing a sword belt, you can tell from the extra "buckle" on the right side of his belt which has a loop at the bottom of it for hooking the front of his sword-hanger to. So I would definitely wear a sword belt as a part of a Gentleman's kit, with or without a sword.

Of course, getting into that conversation, I would also recommend carrying a sword, since that would be what would distinguish a "Gentleman" and above from a mere Burgher or Peasant (even though Burghers were pushing into the strata of Gentry by wearing swords whenever they could get away with it.)

Cheers!

Gordon

Questions on Late 16th Century Accessories

Questions on Late 16th Century Accessories

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