The Armour Archive

Anybody else see the bazuaband looking item in the "cases" section?

Call me crazy, but no..
Which page? I'm pretty sure they aren't featured in this book.

Page 110, fig. 205 Casing for an unknown object, from Dordrecht. The buckles and buckle straps are missing. 15 X 24 cm.

Looks an awful lot like a bazuband........

The lines are similar to some purses (like money/coin purses) from the 16th century. The Mary Rose book has an excellent example from the Barber-Surgeon's trunk.

There's also various sacks that work that way from 14th century on (probably earlier, but that's not really my area o' interest)...just a folded piece of calf-skin with straps/ties at either end to wrap around something and make it an insta-sack.

Here is the rest of the text on fig. 205

"There is a casing that is complete except for it's fastenings. The buckles and buckle straps have been cut off. The rounded bottom ( or maybe top) had been partly sewn up. The casing is 22cm long. It's purpose remains a mystery- possibly an orthopaedic device?"

Mac and I have been discussing these as well.

There are some "bazubands" represented in the Flemish Alexander of c 1340. Here's an image:

Bazu, or artistic laziness?

With full articulated knees, as illustrated, do you think the one-piece arm cannon/elbow would have still been used?

Maeryk wrote:Bazu, or artistic laziness?

With full articulated knees, as illustrated, do you think the one-piece arm cannon/elbow would have still been used?

I don't think it's simply artistic laziness. The artist depicts a wide variety of styles of arm armour, of which this is only one, even in the image this comes from (it's the miniature on folio 66r). I personally think there is no doubt the artist is depicting a bazuband-type arm defense. There was a lot of experimenation during this time. Also, this isn't the only place these are depicted in the manuscript.

Strongbow wrote:

Maeryk wrote:Bazu, or artistic laziness?

With full articulated knees, as illustrated, do you think the one-piece arm cannon/elbow would have still been used?

I don't think it's simply artistic laziness. The artist depicts a wide variety of styles of arm armour, of which this is only one, even in the image this comes from (it's the miniature on folio 66r). I personally think there is no doubt the artist is depicting a bazuband-type arm defense. There was a lot of experimenation during this time. Also, this isn't the only place these are depicted in the manuscript.

Cool! I'm not familiar with the piece. Thanks for the info!

Maeryk wrote:Bazu, or artistic laziness?

With full articulated knees, as illustrated, do you think the one-piece arm cannon/elbow would have still been used?

There are surviving examples of European arm harness with elbow protection integrated with forearm protection. They don't look like bazubands - more like elbow cops melded to vambraces. Point being that the idea of integrated forearm and elbow armour was known in Europe.

Here's another image of what appears to be leather vambraces incorporating elbow protection. It represents the sleeping guards at the Holy Sepulcher (Strasbourg Cathedral).

Note the buckles on the left arm of the left figure, and also the arming point on his right elbow to keep the vambraces from sliding down. These defenses appear to be reinforced with (metal?) strips.

The fellow on the right has what appears to be leather greaves which fasten down the backs. He also has a really cool fluted basinet to go under his great helm.

There's a lot of good stuff in this image. It's said to date from around 1345.

Mac

Kilkenny- Do you have any picture of the type of integrated elbow cop and vambrace you mentioned? I know that in Claude Blair's "European Armour" there's a plate (178) of a german lower cannon found in Denmark which might fit your description.

Another example of a lower cannon which is similar to a bazuband is also found in Denmark. A picture of the effigy is featured in "Medieval Scandinavian armies", the Men-at-arms series. I dare not scan the picture but I have attached two pictures I found online which may indicate what the lower cannons look like. (I have posted these pictures earlier in another discussion here on the archive.)

I would assume that many of the earlier 14th c. vambraces that were used together with small floating elbow cops would be similar to the danish lower cannon in the effigy. If there is to be now gapping between cop and lower cannon when the arm is bent, wouldn't the lower cannon need to extend almost to the tip of the elbow? See the attached picture of Nicholas de la Beche's effigy.

Jentien wrote:Anybody else see the bazuaband looking item in the "cases" section?

I took a look last night and boy does it look like a bazuaband.

It does, doesn't it.....especially the way the "elbow" area is constructed.

Mac wrote:Here's another image of what appears to be leather vambraces incorporating elbow protection. It represents the sleeping guards at the Holy Sepulcher (Strasbourg Cathedral).

Note the buckles on the left arm of the left figure, and also the arming point on his right elbow to keep the vambraces from sliding down. These defenses appear to be reinforced with (metal?) strips.

The fellow on the right has what appears to be leather greaves which fasten down the backs. He also has a really cool fluted basinet to go under his great helm.

There's a lot of good stuff in this image. It's said to date from around 1345.

Mac

Cool. Interesting to see the guard with his belt fastened in back like some hip-plaque belts later in the century.