I'm looking for jugs like these?

Mac · Post by **Mac** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 7:36 pm

Today, I went to Micheal's and found some other wood turnings which looked good. This picture shows five different possible stoppers.

I hope that people will tell me which one they like best.

Note: #1 is the same stopper as in the pictures of prototype #1 above.

Also: any of these stoppers can (and will) be equipped with a string like #1

Thanks!

Mac

Tracy Justus · Post by **Tracy Justus** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 9:31 pm

Finial #3 appeals to me.

Do you have any idea how the stoppers on the All Souls flasks (shown in Secular Goldsmiths' Work in Medieval France by Lightbown) interfaced with the spout? I looked on their website and the internets but didn't find any information about the college's plate.

Handsome piece! I look forward to seeing one in person.

Tracy

Tancred de Lanvellec · Thu Oct 09, 2008 5:52 am

They are all nice but 3 & 4 are my favs.

James B. · Post by **James B.** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 8:17 am

I like #1 and #3

Mac · Post by **Mac** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 8:19 am

Tracy,

The All Souls flasks are screw-tops. They don't appear to have any gasketing, but perhaps they once had leather or cork washers.

Mac

Fire Stryker · Post by **Fire Stryker** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:09 am

1 & 3

If I had to choose just one, it would be #1. I like the simplicity of it.

Jenn

InsaneIrish · Post by **InsaneIrish** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:20 am

#3 and #5

Sean Powell · Post by **Sean Powell** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 10:12 am

#4 and #5. I like #3 but it looks too diminutive which is why I choose #4. I like the groove to grasp and pull. It would help to have the whole bottle for scale purposes.

Sean

chef de chambre · Post by **chef de chambre** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 1:20 pm

I like 3 & 4

Fire Stryker · Post by **Fire Stryker** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 2:41 pm

Looks like 3 is in the lead:

3 (6 votes)

4 (3 votes)

1 & 5 (2 votes)

2 (no votes)

Mac · Post by **Mac** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 3:12 pm

Jenn,

Quite so, but it's still a small sample size. I'm hoping more people will vote.

Mac

Tailoress · Post by **Tailoress** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 5:01 pm

I prefer 1 and 2 for their simplicity.

Cet · Post by **Cet** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 5:14 pm

#3 preferred with #1 second choice.

sha-ul · Post by **sha-ul** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:27 pm

I prefer #5 followed by#3, they look like they would be easier to decant with gloves on.

Derian le Breton · Post by **Derian le Breton** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:33 pm

3, 5, 4 (in order).

Thank you very much for the explanation of how you cut the mold Mac! Fantastic work as always.

-Donasian.

Mac · Post by **Mac** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 9:29 am

It looks like stopper #3 is the winner!

I've been working on improving the quality of the castings for the neck and the foot. I'm getting better results with an alloy of 6% Sb and 2% Cu.

I've also been practicing my soldering....

Perhaps I'll get some pics of prototype #2 up later today.

Mac

Mac · Post by **Mac** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 1:36 pm

Here is a pic of Prototype #2

I've eliminated the knot on the stopper's cord by plying it directly on to the lug, and pegging the raw ends into the top of the stopper.

Mac

Tancred de Lanvellec · Sat Oct 11, 2008 9:46 am

Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet!!!!!!!!!!!

Andrew Young · Post by **Andrew Young** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 3:39 pm

Making me thirsty Mac!

woodwose · Post by **woodwose** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:23 am

I like stoppers 2 and three. those flasks are really awesome mac! I was hoping to find one of the larger size ones in metal, but I think the smaller size you've made would be much more practical for carrying around.

the reason I want metal is that I plan on doing some hiking in period (16th C.) gear in some rather rough terrain and something I learned from my last outing was that sometimes its easier to lower or drop stuff off of a ledge than to climb down with it on... so I'm trying to avoid anything too breakable.

I'm thinking that a small metal flask would go around with me while a larger leather one would stay back at camp.

Mac · Post by **Mac** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 4:46 pm

Thank you all.....!

Dweezle,

I can't remember if I gave a capacity for these earlier or not. In any case, the prototypes hold enough water to fill my 16oz. coffee mug to the top. I'll bring a measuring cup to the shop, and do it right this evening.

Mac

Mac · Post by **Mac** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:13 pm

16 oz. it is; two full measuring cups.

Prototype 3 is a little slimmer, so I expect a slight reduction in volume, but probably less than an ounce.

I'll keep you posted.

Mac

chef de chambre · Post by **chef de chambre** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 2:14 pm

Mac,

If prototype 3, and the production models are going to be more slender, could you hold prototype 2 for me? I will get Jenn to send you the sketch this weekend.

Mac · Post by **Mac** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 4:13 pm

Bob,

Will do!

Mac

Derian le Breton · Post by **Derian le Breton** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 4:57 pm

Related question: when and where are these jugs documentable for?

Thanks,

-Donasian.

chef de chambre · Post by **chef de chambre** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:56 pm

Well, they are definitely mid 15th century, at least, into the 17th. I believe I have seen the form from the late 14th century. All Northern EUrope, to Central Europe.

Derian le Breton · Post by **Derian le Breton** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:35 pm

Hm, the 1320s would be a stretch then, probably.

Drat.

-Donasian.

chef de chambre · Post by **chef de chambre** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 6:20 am

I wouldn't say that, I have just not looked for them that early myself, as being outside my sphere of relevant research to what I am doing.

Derian le Breton · Post by **Derian le Breton** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 12:59 pm

Understandable, thanks.

-Donasian.

Mac · Post by **Mac** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 8:38 pm

Donesian,

Here are a couple of field flasks from the early Fourteenth century.

This is from a â€œflight to Egyptâ€

Mac Thamhais · Post by **Mac Thamhais** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:34 pm

Just throwing this out there, but would you consider doing these in the more barrel shaped style, referred to earlier as a costrel if I understood the references correctly (that is, if such a thing would have been made in metal to begin with.)

Mac · Post by **Mac** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:47 am

Mac T,

I'm pretty sure that the earliest barrel shaped costrels were probably coopered construction; quite literally barrels. The next most likely skeuomorph is the leather costrel. A few of these have even survived. I have also seen a drawing of a surviving fragment of a barrel shaped costrel in ceramic.

It would not surprise me at all if there *were* metallic versions of the barrel shaped costrel, beaten out of copper alloy or even silver. If that were true, you can bet that the pewterers made them too!

It would be an interesting project for the future, but I don't see tackling it now. Meanwhile, I'll keep my eyes open for evidence of their existence.

Mac

chef de chambre · Post by **chef de chambre** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 11:20 am

I should point out, that these flasks - you guessed it - are named "costrel" as well. The name has very little to do with the shape, and everything to do with the function of holding liquid for drinking, and, as Mac points out, they can be everything from gilt silver, to leather, and stoneware or earthenware, and everything in-between, that can be made to hold liquid (including glass).

InsaneIrish · Post by **InsaneIrish** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:02 pm

Mac wrote:
In this â€œfight to Egyptâ€œ from 1308-11, Duccio di Bouninsegna shows a small flask hanging from the staff carried by St Joe. http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/d ... e_f_l.html
I think this one is pewter.

Do you have other evidence that this particular illustration is a flask?

I looked at it and blew it up and it certainly looks like a small bag/cloth wrapped around something and tied to the staff.

Is there some other evidence that flasks were carried on staffs?

Just mildly curious.

Derian le Breton · Post by **Derian le Breton** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 2:22 pm

InsaneIrish wrote:Do you have other evidence that this particular illustration is a flask?

I looked at it and blew it up and it certainly looks like a small bag/cloth wrapped around something and tied to the staff.

Is there some other evidence that flasks were carried on staffs?

Just mildly curious.

I believe the flask is the object below the cloth bundle. It intersects the outer edge of the halo.

-Donasian.