The Armour Archive

Today, I went to Micheal's and found some other wood turnings which looked good. This picture shows five different possible stoppers.

I hope that people will tell me which one they like best.

Note: #1 is the same stopper as in the pictures of prototype #1 above.

Also: any of these stoppers can (and will) be equipped with a string like #1

Thanks!

Mac

Finial #3 appeals to me.

Do you have any idea how the stoppers on the All Souls flasks (shown in Secular Goldsmiths' Work in Medieval France by Lightbown) interfaced with the spout? I looked on their website and the internets but didn't find any information about the college's plate.

Handsome piece! I look forward to seeing one in person.

Tracy

They are all nice but 3 & 4 are my favs.

I like #1 and #3

Tracy,

The All Souls flasks are screw-tops. They don't appear to have any gasketing, but perhaps they once had leather or cork washers.

Mac

1 & 3

If I had to choose just one, it would be #1. I like the simplicity of it.

Jenn

#3 and #5

#4 and #5. I like #3 but it looks too diminutive which is why I choose #4. I like the groove to grasp and pull. It would help to have the whole bottle for scale purposes.

Sean

I like 3 & 4

Looks like 3 is in the lead:

3 (6 votes)

4 (3 votes)

1 & 5 (2 votes)

2 (no votes)

Jenn,

Quite so, but it's still a small sample size. I'm hoping more people will vote.

Mac

I prefer 1 and 2 for their simplicity.

#3 preferred with #1 second choice.

I prefer #5 followed by#3, they look like they would be easier to decant with gloves on.

3, 5, 4 (in order).

Thank you very much for the explanation of how you cut the mold Mac! Fantastic work as always.

-Donasian.

It looks like stopper #3 is the winner!

I've been working on improving the quality of the castings for the neck and the foot. I'm getting better results with an alloy of 6% Sb and 2% Cu.

I've also been practicing my soldering....

Perhaps I'll get some pics of prototype #2 up later today.

Mac

Here is a pic of Prototype #2




I've eliminated the knot on the stopper's cord by plying it directly on to the lug, and pegging the raw ends into the top of the stopper.

Mac

Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet!!!!!!!!!!!

Making me thirsty Mac!

I like stoppers 2 and three. those flasks are really awesome mac! I was hoping to find one of the larger size ones in metal, but I think the smaller size you've made would be much more practical for carrying around.

the reason I want metal is that I plan on doing some hiking in period (16th C.) gear in some rather rough terrain and something I learned from my last outing was that sometimes its easier to lower or drop stuff off of a ledge than to climb down with it on... so I'm trying to avoid anything too breakable.

I'm thinking that a small metal flask would go around with me while a larger leather one would stay back at camp.

Thank you all.....!

Dweezle,

I can't remember if I gave a capacity for these earlier or not. In any case, the prototypes hold enough water to fill my 16oz. coffee mug to the top. I'll bring a measuring cup to the shop, and do it right this evening.

Mac

16 oz. it is; two full measuring cups.

Prototype 3 is a little slimmer, so I expect a slight reduction in volume, but probably less than an ounce.

I'll keep you posted.

Mac

Mac,

If prototype 3, and the production models are going to be more slender, could you hold prototype 2 for me? I will get Jenn to send you the sketch this weekend.

Bob,

Will do!

Mac

Related question: when and where are these jugs documentable for?

Thanks,

-Donasian.

Well, they are definitely mid 15th century, at least, into the 17th. I believe I have seen the form from the late 14th century. All Northern EUrope, to Central Europe.

Hm, the 1320s would be a stretch then, probably.

Drat.

-Donasian.

I wouldn't say that, I have just not looked for them that early myself, as being outside my sphere of relevant research to what I am doing.

Understandable, thanks.

-Donasian.

Donesian,

Here are a couple of field flasks from the early Fourteenth century.

This is from a “flight to Egyptâ€

Just throwing this out there, but would you consider doing these in the more barrel shaped style, referred to earlier as a costrel if I understood the references correctly (that is, if such a thing would have been made in metal to begin with.)

Mac T,

I'm pretty sure that the earliest barrel shaped costrels were probably coopered construction; quite literally barrels. The next most likely skeuomorph is the leather costrel. A few of these have even survived. I have also seen a drawing of a surviving fragment of a barrel shaped costrel in ceramic.

It would not surprise me at all if there *were* metallic versions of the barrel shaped costrel, beaten out of copper alloy or even silver. If that were true, you can bet that the pewterers made them too!

It would be an interesting project for the future, but I don't see tackling it now. Meanwhile, I'll keep my eyes open for evidence of their existence.

Mac

I should point out, that these flasks - you guessed it - are named "costrel" as well. The name has very little to do with the shape, and everything to do with the function of holding liquid for drinking, and, as Mac points out, they can be everything from gilt silver, to leather, and stoneware or earthenware, and everything in-between, that can be made to hold liquid (including glass).

Mac wrote:
In this “fight to Egypt“ from 1308-11, Duccio di Bouninsegna shows a small flask hanging from the staff carried by St Joe. http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/d ... e_f_l.html
I think this one is pewter.

Do you have other evidence that this particular illustration is a flask?

I looked at it and blew it up and it certainly looks like a small bag/cloth wrapped around something and tied to the staff.

Is there some other evidence that flasks were carried on staffs?

Just mildly curious.

InsaneIrish wrote:Do you have other evidence that this particular illustration is a flask?

I looked at it and blew it up and it certainly looks like a small bag/cloth wrapped around something and tied to the staff.

Is there some other evidence that flasks were carried on staffs?

Just mildly curious.

I believe the flask is the object below the cloth bundle. It intersects the outer edge of the halo.

-Donasian.