some training videos

carlyle · Post by **carlyle** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 6:16 pm

dukelogan wrote:i just cant fight with something light enough to do it.

Maybe if you used your hips more :twisted:

... AoC

Dmitriy · Post by **Dmitriy** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 6:21 pm

Nice videos!
I've always called the "flat snap" you show (diagonal, with the sword making it inside the shield) a "right cross", as opposed to the flat snap, which is horizontal (aka flat).

Vebrand · Post by **Vebrand** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 7:12 pm

carlyle wrote:Maybe if you used your hips more ... AoC

You are a funny and cruel man, I knew I liked you for some reason :lol:

Vebrand

jester · Post by **jester** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:38 am

Thank you for the videos. I've watched them a couple of times and tried to pay attention to the body mechanics. I've noticed a few things.

1) Physique. Duke Logan has some fairly well-developed shoulders and forearms. I suspect this has something to do with the power he generates.
2) The arm extension. Extending the arm fully is, in my opinion, only important to the blow if the body-weight is being transferred to the blow. Nice explanation of the arm extension, btw. The posture Duke Logan uses when delivering the blow seems to me to make it clear that body weight is transferred to the blow at the last moment even if it isn't being moved prior to the blow to 'launch' the sword.
3) Damn I miss cicadas.

twoswords · Post by **twoswords** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:40 am

carlyle wrote:
dukelogan wrote:i just cant fight with something light enough to do it.

Maybe if you used your hips more ... AoC

Ok, having read the entire thread I just laughed so much when I saw this comment.

dukelogan · Post by **dukelogan** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 10:12 am

alot of that noise are frogs too. oh no..... not the cool mosquito eating kind, that would be nice.

just the noisy ones.. but yeah, the cicadas are unreal this time of year. little exoskeletons all over my pecan tree and my shop. :evil:

not sure i understand what youre saying about body weight transfered in the "punch" video. when i throw it full speed/force i actually throw my body backwards. its hard to do these videos slow also as i think it messes up a little of how i actually execute some of them. living in sc is a little problematic as my yard is mostly sand and wearing tennis shoes while doing those was a pain as, without my cleats, i was having a little trouble with my feet sliding.

regards
logan

jester wrote:Thank you for the videos. I've watched them a couple of times and tried to pay attention to the body mechanics. I've noticed a few things.

1) Physique. Duke Logan has some fairly well-developed shoulders and forearms. I suspect this has something to do with the power he generates.
2) The arm extension. Extending the arm fully is, in my opinion, only important to the blow if the body-weight is being transferred to the blow. Nice explanation of the arm extension, btw. The posture Duke Logan uses when delivering the blow seems to me to make it clear that body weight is transferred to the blow at the last moment even if it isn't being moved prior to the blow to 'launch' the sword.
3) Damn I miss cicadas.

Apollonian · Post by **Apollonian** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 10:38 am

Joaquin wrote::P
It's not just you, Jon. I've always had a hard time with lefties in SCA shield combat. This is something that I want to work on in general, not something targeted solely at you. Your example just drove home the point.

mongrel_Slimedog wrote:Haha what's the matter Joaquin trying to figure out some way to destroy my evil wronghandedness? When I get back I'm dropping the shield so you'll be fine :-p

-mongrel-

I got over a significant plateau fighting lefties by putting on my hat, shield and sword and looking in the mirror.

Falcone

jester · Post by **jester** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 10:42 am

dukelogan wrote:alot of that noise are frogs too. oh no..... not the cool mosquito eating kind, that would be nice. just the noisy ones.. but yeah, the cicadas are unreal this time of year. little exoskeletons all over my pecan tree and my shop.

not sure i understand what youre saying about body weight transfered in the "punch" video. when i throw it full speed/force i actually throw my body backwards. its hard to do these videos slow also as i think it messes up a little of how i actually execute some of them. living in sc is a little problematic as my yard is mostly sand and wearing tennis shoes while doing those was a pain as, without my cleats, i was having a little trouble with my feet sliding.

regards
logan

jester wrote:Thank you for the videos. I've watched them a couple of times and tried to pay attention to the body mechanics. I've noticed a few things.

1) Physique. Duke Logan has some fairly well-developed shoulders and forearms. I suspect this has something to do with the power he generates.
2) The arm extension. Extending the arm fully is, in my opinion, only important to the blow if the body-weight is being transferred to the blow. Nice explanation of the arm extension, btw. The posture Duke Logan uses when delivering the blow seems to me to make it clear that body weight is transferred to the blow at the last moment even if it isn't being moved prior to the blow to 'launch' the sword.
3) Damn I miss cicadas.

I think body weight is pretty clearly transferred. In the video one leg always straightens in the same situations where your arm straightens. Your comment about your feet sliding is another good indicator. I don't mean that you're doing the 'hula of death' and using your body to launch the shots, but your body weight really looks like it is getting transmitted to the shot. Throwing your body backward would work almost as well as leaning into the shot for adding body weight to the blow, btw.

Tristan vom Schwarzwald · Mon Jul 06, 2009 10:54 am

jester wrote:
I think body weight is pretty clearly transferred. In the video one leg always straightens in the same situations where your arm straightens. Your comment about your feet sliding is another good indicator.

Perhaps, but he might also be moving NOT to put body into the shot but rather to maintain the center of mass position as he extends the arm and leg...

Syrfinn · Post by **Syrfinn** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 12:05 pm

Actually went over some of the stuff with my guys yesterday at a 4th picnic that one of my guys threw, and we had a fight practice afterwords.

Been working on my pell with most of it thru the week, and then worked with them on Sunday.

Went over pretty well, and yeah, they were a little amazed at the hand grip shot. Specially when some of them were doubting it, and I demonstrated to them, with their helms on.

Thanks for the vids Your Grace.

jester · Post by **jester** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 12:06 pm

Tristan vom Schwarzwald wrote:
jester wrote:
I think body weight is pretty clearly transferred. In the video one leg always straightens in the same situations where your arm straightens. Your comment about your feet sliding is another good indicator.

Perhaps, but he might also be moving NOT to put body into the shot but rather to maintain the center of mass position as he extends the arm and leg...

Whatever the intent, I would guess it has the same effect. If I'm wrong (I often am) then I'm wrong and I'd love to learn why.

bigfredb · Post by **bigfredb** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 12:07 pm

Thanks for posting the videos. They were a very good explaination. I like that you were explaining while not wearing armour and showing the blows against someone in armour.

If you do add some additional content, I would also add a full example of what you just taught with someone (yourself or another) in full armour with a shield throwing the blow as described.

I will definately have to practice the "punch" technique. Being a big guy (with a long reach), everyone wants to fight me in close.

Sigifrith Hauknefr · Post by **Sigifrith Hauknefr** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 12:09 pm

one of the best ways to increase power is to move your body's center of mass. It does not have to be at all in the direction of the shot. It can be linear or rotational (relative to a straight line from your neck to your crotch).

It can be counter rotational, or backwards (there is a classic offside where you stick your ass down and back when your sword flies forward) or perpendicular (up or down, typically), it's just a matter of using the body/arm as pully system to transfer the c.o.m movement to sword motion.

B. Amos · Post by **B. Amos** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 12:33 pm

Your Majesty, can you do a video to teach me the shot where you kick up your right leg, and throw a low thumb lead to your opponents leg. that shot is the coolest of cool :twisted:

Tristan vom Schwarzwald · Mon Jul 06, 2009 2:54 pm

Sigifrith Hauknefr wrote:one of the best ways to increase power is to move your body's center of mass. It does not have to be at all in the direction of the shot. It can be linear or rotational (relative to a straight line from your neck to your crotch).

It can be counter rotational, or backwards (there is a classic offside where you stick your ass down and back when your sword flies forward) or perpendicular (up or down, typically), it's just a matter of using the body/arm as pully system to transfer the c.o.m movement to sword motion.

I am not sure this is true...it seems more logical that change of angular momentum to linear, or the reverse, along with changes of angular momentum supply a great deal of 'power'(ie. force). The latter is particularly good, IMO...think of a spinning figure skater pulling his/her extended arms in, angular velocity increases but the center of mass remains unaltered...

Sigifrith Hauknefr · Post by **Sigifrith Hauknefr** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 3:36 pm

Tristan vom Schwarzwald wrote:
Sigifrith Hauknefr wrote:]

I am not sure this is true...it seems more logical that change of angular momentum to linear, or the reverse, along with changes of angular momentum supply a great deal of 'power'(ie. force). The latter is particularly good, IMO...think of a spinning figure skater pulling his/her extended arms in, angular velocity increases but the center of mass remains unaltered...

The details of the descriptive physics are not really important, they become almost useless once you get past 2-3 joints and hinges. The important thing is that you are not using little muscles to move little parts move. You are using big muscles (torso, thighs) to make your whole body move (often not very much), with the force then transferred/focused out to your hand.

jester · Post by **jester** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 10:37 am

I'd like to ask a follow-up question regarding the first video and the hand-contraction at the moment of impact. From your discussion in the third video (the punch) where you discuss the importance of arm extension and from watching your motion in all three videos I concluded that you were transferring body-weight via the hand-contraction and arm extension (and other visual cues including a straight leg). The question is: Do you feel that you contract/tighten other muscles in your body at the moment of impact?

I ask because some dimly remembered karate bio-mechanics was coming back to me. I looked it up and a fairly large number of people advocate tensing the body at the moment of impact to increase power to the punch. Apparently this is meant to connect the whole body to the strike and add the mass of the body to the punch/strike. I'm wondering if your hand contraction and arm-extension and the timing you teach are the way you get your entire body to do the work.

Thank you.

bigfredb · Post by **bigfredb** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 12:24 pm

Your Grace,

I would like to suggest a follow-up training video: "The Wrap"

Concentrating on generating power in the wrap along with proper execution.

ThorvaldR Skegglauss · Wed Jul 08, 2009 2:26 am

I just watched the three videos, unfortuneately I have no sound at work but that is ok. Just watching the technique is helpful. I find that I fight in a very similar manner. The footwork portion on the "one inch punch" video was really interesting.

I also noticed that you throw a false edge offside when in close. I love that shot.

also of interest to mention is that when talking with Duke Paul about that shot his comment was "I don't throw that shot". :wink:

I will have to watch these at home with some sound at a certain point but I don't think It is going to do anything extra beyond what was visible.

Thanks Logan

regards
Thorvaldr

Duke Uther · Post by **Duke Uther** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:59 am

[quote="dukelogan"]will do. ive got a few different ways i throw to the arm. i fight against a lot of heaters and find that shots to the torso are harder to land than dropping it to the hip or leg. if my opponent is legged i can usually hit the torso pretty easily and i do incorporate it in several combos that i use against them. you can see both an offside tot he leg and then, at the end, and offside to the body before the fight ending head shot at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhXXToZi ... re=related

I loved this fight, it was great to see live.

Uther

Leopold der Wolf · Post by **Leopold der Wolf** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 8:45 pm

That timing video is my new favorite training video. Watching that kinda changed my whole mind frame on how to throw a "snap". Just hitting with it on the pell was interesting. It also really improved the force of my backhand blow and flatsnap.

dukelogan · Post by **dukelogan** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 9:58 pm

the trick is to do it as slow as possible while still hitting your partner with plenty of force.

regards
logan

ps im teaching a few classes at an event this weekend (may or may not get them taped) and will hopefully get some of the requests ive gotten next week. we had a lot of hard rain tonight and all of my guys got all sissy on me. so i made them help me load the van for this weekend...

Leopold der Wolf wrote:That timing video is my new favorite training video. Watching that kinda changed my whole mind frame on how to throw a "snap". Just hitting with it on the pell was interesting. It also really improved the force of my backhand blow and flatsnap.

Broadway · Post by **Broadway** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 11:36 pm

I would like to request a video breaking down the three shot combo you throw into folks when they are legged. Please.

That one is awesome.

dukelogan · Post by **dukelogan** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 12:54 am

man..... all my tricks just thrown up there for the world to see.

you know, if you bought some lottery tickets for the training sessions and put them all in my basket you could win an entire hour of one on one time. of course you can still buy them at assessments this weekend.

or, just come to my class "tips and tricks" and maybe after im done i will work with you a bit on it. :wink:

regards
logan

Dante della Luna wrote:I would like to request a video breaking down the three shot combo you throw into folks when they are legged. Please.

That one is awesome.

asbrand · Post by **asbrand** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:42 am

Thanks for the videos. I'll start practicing some of those on my pell.

After 20+ years fighting, I've grown rather stagnant, and need to learn some new techniques. I look forward to trying them out!

Broadway · Post by **Broadway** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 3:37 am

I'm sorta living off of unemployment checks at the moment, and I'm not going to be able to make it to assessements.

I'll mow some yards or something for some extra cash, and put it towards lottery tickets at some future date...

If I win, can I request my training session in online video?

:twisted:

dukelogan wrote:man..... all my tricks just thrown up there for the world to see.

you know, if you bought some lottery tickets for the training sessions and put them all in my basket you could win an entire hour of one on one time. of course you can still buy them at assessments this weekend.

or, just come to my class "tips and tricks" and maybe after im done i will work with you a bit on it.

regards
logan

Dante della Luna wrote:I would like to request a video breaking down the three shot combo you throw into folks when they are legged. Please.

That one is awesome.

some training videos

Great fight