Hilt Weight

Magnus Ulfgarsson · Post by **Magnus Ulfgarsson** » Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:12 pm

I have been using a Baldur basket hilt for some time now, which was brought about by my 4 previous steel hilts before that breaking constantly.

Lately I've thought of making some mitten gauntlets and adding a brass cross guard and pommel to the sword, and maybe a d-grip for extra knuckle protection.

The weight difference is very close to a Baldur vs. A Steel Basket (.7 vs 1.8-2lbs)

Just thinking of what this will do for my game. Guessing since the balance point will be closer to my hilt with the brass stuff that my shots would be a bit tighter?

Not even sure what I'm looking for in this comment, so feel free to make some stuff up.

Benedek · Post by **Benedek** » Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:20 pm

Having recently entered the field after a long hiatus, I like having the "balance point" closer to my hand. It helps me with the recovery from a shot, much easier with a shoulder that is weaker than I used to have.

Keeping my arm closer to my body while taking shots at an opponent allows me to keep my game up longer.

I just rebuilt my single stick and my longsword with heavy pommels and hilt's that allows me to keep them closer to my center of gravity.

YMMV

Magnus Ulfgarsson · Post by **Magnus Ulfgarsson** » Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:52 pm

I have a wonky shoulder currently, quite often being tweaked when I throw a wrap.

And video of me I often feel like my sword isn't under as much control as it should be.

More weight at the hilt perhaps would help that then.

Cedric · Post by **Cedric** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 5:57 am

Anybody ever try lead tennis racket tape to put some weight on the hilt when using baldar basket hilts? I almost grabbed some of this to try:

http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/descpageACBAB-BLT.html

Diglach Mac Cein · Post by **Diglach Mac Cein** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 7:41 am

I'm switching to cross hilts and gunatlets on doctors orders... GOing to take some experimentation after 20 years of SCA combat.

.

Baron Alcyoneus · Post by **Baron Alcyoneus** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 8:06 am

Once you get used to it, because the mechanics are a little different, just as they are anytime you borrow a different sword, you will find certain things happening.

Your tip will move faster.
You will have more control.
You can become much more accurate.

Cisco · Post by **Cisco** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 8:30 am

And a couple of other things may happen. I fight with a tip-heavy sword. I feel much more comfortable with it. I tried moving to a basket-heavy sword and I started having issues with power generation.

Because you are 'used to' having weight out in the tip, moving the weight back (as Alcy said) will (assuming similar mechanics) make the tip move faster. You will also probably not hit as hard (b/c the weight is closer to your hand and that weight point won't move as far as the tip, where your weight point used to be) at first until you compensate for the different balance point.

It doesn't mean just swing harder, for what it's worth.

audax · Post by **audax** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 10:24 am

I do this crazy thing and build my swords to balance about 3-5 inches in front of the hilt like a real sword. I used a tip heavy sword for quite some time after recieving advice to do so. The difference is dramatic.

Gives tremendous control over the sword, hits plenty hard assuming you use proper mechanics and helps avoid injury because you dont' have to force the sword to do things.

The other thing I do is try to carve my hilts to fit like a real sword hilt, with a swell in the palm. Makes a big difference in how you grip the sword and takes a lot of strain off the wrist and elbow.

Baron Alcyoneus · Post by **Baron Alcyoneus** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:23 pm

You aren't trying to tell me there was a reason they made swords the way they did, are you?

audax · Post by **audax** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 1:14 pm

Baron Alcyoneus wrote:You aren't trying to tell me there was a reason they made swords the way they did, are you?

That's just kooky talk.

Cisco · Post by **Cisco** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 1:35 pm

It's almost like they spent a lot of time thinking about it. And maybe a lot of time working on stuff...

Like their lives depended on it or something and they wanted the best.

Craziness...

audax · Post by **audax** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 1:48 pm

Cisco wrote:It's almost like they spent a lot of time thinking about it. And maybe a lot of time working on stuff...

Like their lives depended on it or something and they wanted the best.

Craziness...

Absolute madness, I tell ya....

Magnus Ulfgarsson · Post by **Magnus Ulfgarsson** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 5:54 pm

Well I'm looking into brass fittings from windrose, but according to their site I think the fittings for a "viking" sword would weigh 2.5lbs

In comparison a Baldur basket is .7lbs

And a heavy duty steel basket is 2lbs

That 2.5lbs for the brass fittings doesn't include the mitten I'll be using because I have to, and maybe a D-ring bar for extra knuckle protection.

Just a bit worried about the weight.

Halfdan · Post by **Halfdan** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:07 pm

I use the AL viking fittings and a leather mitten gaunt. The key for success with a hilted SCA sword as Sir Lex (Britehelm on AA) has informed me, is to strap it tightly to your hand with a buckle.

Honestly, you can't play the same whippy-stick game with it like you can with a plastic hilt and ultralight rattan. You actually have to use it like a sword (or so I guess; I haven't been in a lot of real swordfights lately). It works great for me; I can't see myself going back to a basket.

Magnus Ulfgarsson · Post by **Magnus Ulfgarsson** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:15 pm

Halfdan wrote:I use the AL viking fittings and a leather mitten gaunt. The key for success with a hilted SCA sword as Sir Lex (Britehelm on AA) has informed me, is to strap it tightly to your hand with a buckle.

Honestly, you can't play the same whippy-stick game with it like you can with a plastic hilt and ultralight rattan. You actually have to use it like a sword (or so I guess; I haven't been in a lot of real swordfights lately). It works great for me; I can't see myself going back to a basket.

AL Viking Fittings?

Cian of Storvik · Post by **Cian of Storvik** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:17 pm

If you have shoulder problems, I would try to keep the whole weapon down in weight as much as possible. And remember you should be throwing shots with your body, not your arm. With proper form, you can let your arm go completely wet noodle, and throw a telling blow.

That's not to say there aren't benefits to having a heavy weapon.
I like blade heavy weapons (kong mace or thick sword) because I'm lazy. The weight of the weapon does a good deal of the work for me. It actually saves my arm because I rely on my hips and the mass of the business end of the weapon to do the work for me. As such I run out of air (become exhausted) long before my bicep/shoulder/wrist start to bother me.

I think the brass pommels from windrose are a bit overkill in weight for the way I fight. That might be why they are always running out of the pewter versions. The aluminum is too light (if you have a fish-bat sword 1.5"+ diam rattan or edged in leather), and the brass is too heavy unless you're one of those that wants the center of balance right at your index finger.

Remember most medieval single hand swords weighed in around 2 to 3 lbs. And if your sword's hardware is 2.5 lbs. you're probably going to be a bit over the curve.
-Cian

Halfdan · Post by **Halfdan** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:32 pm

Aluminum. I didn't mean to get all periodic tabley on you.

Halfdan · Post by **Halfdan** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:36 pm

Cian- I reasoned that my gauntlet's weight made up for the lightness of the AL pommel. Is this, in your experience, not the case?

Cian of Storvik · Post by **Cian of Storvik** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 8:23 pm

Not exactly. It does increase the total weight of what you're throwing out there on your arm, but unless you have a death grip on your weapon, you don't get to take advantage of that potential mass as you make contact with your opponent. Likewise, since your gauntlet isn't attached to the weapon, it doesn't provide a counter-balance the blade at all.

So, I guess my point is...if you're used to using a steel wire hilt (say 2 lbs.) and leather demi-gauntlet (.25 lbs). Then when you go to an aluminum crosshilt and pommel (1.5 lbs) and have your 16 ga finger gaunts (~1 lb.) then you aren't really tiring you arm out any more then you were before, but your weapon is now more tip heavy because your gaunts aren't providing any counterbalance behind your grip. Does that make sense?

Your weapon + hilt + gaunts together may not have changed weight, but your weapon could handle completely differently.

In my case, my total weapon/gaunt weight increased by about .65 lb. overall. The sword dropped about a half a pound, but the gauntlet added 1.1 lbs. I still do swing slower now that my weapon is tip heavy (even though it is lighter!). But instead of throwing many multiple blows and getting "light! light! light!"...Assuming I make contact, I rarely ver get a "light".

-Cian