We use lower leg targets in the boffer group I am a part of, accept we do target the ankle or below as they are very fragile. Before I get the boffer Weapons dont hurt, most of our boffer weapons are heavier and sometimes deliver a more solid hit than the rattan weapons I have used
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Nobility is earned not a birthright
Experiences with lower leg targets and/or wasters?
Hi all!
Good to hear from you Asbjorn. I also think we should experiment with lower leg targeting in Tourney Company type setting but probably not melee, we only use face thrusting in 1 battle a year at Pennsic so there is precedent. Limiting it to one handed swords might be a good way to start.
As for the knee not taking hits well we would already see that. Everybody in the society gets hit in the side of the knee by low shots. I get more dents on my knee armor than my elbows.
I've heard he real reason the SCA banned lower leg shots was not injuries!! The problem was fighting from our knees. It was impossible to close with a kneeling fighter without getting hit in the shin. It could be that going to your knees to make it fair started as a way to avoid getting hit in the lower leg not necessarily as chivalry. I think it is more chivalrous to complete a fair and honorable combat without handicapping yourself (it's disrespecting your opponent's fighting ability).
So first we have to get rid of kneeling before lower leg shots can be viable.
Lord Theodore of Haddington
Good to hear from you Asbjorn. I also think we should experiment with lower leg targeting in Tourney Company type setting but probably not melee, we only use face thrusting in 1 battle a year at Pennsic so there is precedent. Limiting it to one handed swords might be a good way to start.
As for the knee not taking hits well we would already see that. Everybody in the society gets hit in the side of the knee by low shots. I get more dents on my knee armor than my elbows.
I've heard he real reason the SCA banned lower leg shots was not injuries!! The problem was fighting from our knees. It was impossible to close with a kneeling fighter without getting hit in the shin. It could be that going to your knees to make it fair started as a way to avoid getting hit in the lower leg not necessarily as chivalry. I think it is more chivalrous to complete a fair and honorable combat without handicapping yourself (it's disrespecting your opponent's fighting ability).
So first we have to get rid of kneeling before lower leg shots can be viable.
Lord Theodore of Haddington
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Russ Mitchell
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I've spent the past two years training with a group that would scare some of you folks to death. We whacked with wooden wasters (which folks say are harder on the body than rattan) on every part of the body, with only WWI helmets and a foam pad on the weapon hand.
Injuries were nigh non-existent (unless I caused them
with somebody who really screwed up.), and even when they happened, they were usually no worse than a minor cut or a really nice bruise.
The odd thing about allowing the lower leg as a target is that it actually protects the leg. I'd NEVER throw a leg shot unless it was absolutely set up for me. Bob Charron's example illustrates it perfectly: as Fiore says, the legs are protected by distance, and if I try to take them, I open the entire rest of my body, unless things have already gotten to very short range.
By allowing the lower leg, we actually get a whole lot more countercuts to the arm! Most wrap shots go away except for buckler fighting, etc., where they still tend to be the province of the mace (steppe mace reach is just as long as a sword's, roughly 30-some inches). In fact, it changes the distance game so dramatically, and generally removes the leg as a preferred target, that not one of us ever bothered wearing a cup, nor had cause to regret it...
Personally, I just can't see the kneeling rule. I'm just starting to play with SCA folks, and when I'm with y'all, I'll play by your rules. But any cleaving hit that went through my thigh (or even calf) would leave me in no condition to fight anybody, even if I didn't die right there on the spot.
Injuries were nigh non-existent (unless I caused them
with somebody who really screwed up.), and even when they happened, they were usually no worse than a minor cut or a really nice bruise.The odd thing about allowing the lower leg as a target is that it actually protects the leg. I'd NEVER throw a leg shot unless it was absolutely set up for me. Bob Charron's example illustrates it perfectly: as Fiore says, the legs are protected by distance, and if I try to take them, I open the entire rest of my body, unless things have already gotten to very short range.
By allowing the lower leg, we actually get a whole lot more countercuts to the arm! Most wrap shots go away except for buckler fighting, etc., where they still tend to be the province of the mace (steppe mace reach is just as long as a sword's, roughly 30-some inches). In fact, it changes the distance game so dramatically, and generally removes the leg as a preferred target, that not one of us ever bothered wearing a cup, nor had cause to regret it...
Personally, I just can't see the kneeling rule. I'm just starting to play with SCA folks, and when I'm with y'all, I'll play by your rules. But any cleaving hit that went through my thigh (or even calf) would leave me in no condition to fight anybody, even if I didn't die right there on the spot.
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Magmaforge
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Hmmm. Maybe have a rule in the SCA that if lower leg gets hit full, you must stand on the remaining one? That would be funny at a Pennsic.
Shins do not like hard pressure, and can break easily. I have always been much more concerned for them than knees and upper leg. Although, I have had some grievous injuries on the regions above and below the knees ( like 1/2 in above or below).
Growing up playing soccer, we hit shins often, and it compacts the bone structure over time, making them harder. I still worry about them a lot, though.
Magmaforge
The Three Rules of Life
1) Shoot first, ask questions later
2) Women and children first
3) Pillage, _then_ burn
Shins do not like hard pressure, and can break easily. I have always been much more concerned for them than knees and upper leg. Although, I have had some grievous injuries on the regions above and below the knees ( like 1/2 in above or below).
Growing up playing soccer, we hit shins often, and it compacts the bone structure over time, making them harder. I still worry about them a lot, though.
Magmaforge
The Three Rules of Life
1) Shoot first, ask questions later
2) Women and children first
3) Pillage, _then_ burn