Shots that Hit something on the way in.

[Count Johnathan]

+1 on the gauntlet cuff.

I really hate those ugly as sin plastic "bear claws" gauntlets. See guys wearing them with cuffs nearly to the elbow... And take them all as "cuff shots".

.

If it wasn't already well past time to do it I would suggest a 2 inch cuff on gauntlets rule that way if it hit the cuff it wouldn't be any good and if it didn't it would be easy to tell. I wish more fighters made their equipment with things like that in mind.

[tvetree]

I will not give names but one of my fav storys to listen to has an oppent calling shots to fast.

As in.Are you readdy ,both partys yes,lay on(sp) whaaack...umh to fast
Ok??
Again are you ready,both partys yes,lay on(sp again) Whack...umh still to fast I' wasn't ready.

Ummh Oki?
You just throw the first shot next time....

[asbrand]

I've actually personally witnessed a knight claiming that any shots that hit his white belt don't count.



Admittedly, this was a rather long time ago...but it did happen. I wasn't the only witness either.

[herrhauptmann]

Hah, got ya all beat.. Actually have heard this one

"My belt buckle is a static shield. That blow was no good"...

Where did you meet a guy who's such a hick that he wears a belt buckle that huge while fighting?

[Angusm0628]

Where did you meet a guy who's such a hick that he wears a belt buckle that huge while fighting?

Eisental bout 9 years ago..Dude was a Knight..

[Count Johnathan]

Well thats perfectly understandable guys. White belts are.... ok no it's not. Nevermind

[herrhauptmann]

Eisental bout 9 years ago..Dude was a Knight..

Isn't it a rule also that passive shields (ie, ones strapped to a limb and aren't manipulated) don't count as shields? Only as armor?

[Maeryk]

Where did you meet a guy who's such a hick that he wears a belt buckle that huge while fighting?

Eisental bout 9 years ago..Dude was a Knight..

Still is.

[mordreth]

Where did you meet a guy who's such a hick that he wears a belt buckle that huge while fighting?

Eisental bout 9 years ago..Dude was a Knight..

sheehit

[Angusm0628]

Isn't it a rule also that passive shields (ie, ones strapped to a limb and aren't manipulated) don't count as shields? Only as armor?

Ayup..

[Angusm0628]

Still is.

Yeah I know, he got pissy with me bout four years ago when I ended up going through his entire Stable at a Landsknecht event.

[Aaron]

I'm planning on modifying my gauntlets for a longer, historically correct cuff. And if I'm hit there, it's good.

Now I know I've taken flak for taking gauntlet shots as good as well, in practices. I explain if I was so stupid to put my hands in the way, I'd like to forfit the match. I shouldn't block with my hands.

-Aaron

[Baron Alejandro]

I try to remember to take them as arm shots. Fighting one handed with a polearm <i>sucks</i>.

[Ulric]

I will not give names but one of my fav storys to listen to has an oppent calling shots to fast.

As in.Are you readdy ,both partys yes,lay on(sp) whaaack...umh to fast
Ok??
Again are you ready,both partys yes,lay on(sp again) Whack...umh still to fast I' wasn't ready.

Ummh Oki?
You just throw the first shot next time....

Or, you know.... don't start inside your opponents range silly.

[Ewan]

Man, I'm glad I live where I do. I've never heard anything even close to some of these stories.....

Oh wait. There was a guy who had a "visor" on his helmet.

Welded in the open position.

Anything that hit it was no good.....

Didn't see but people I trust implicitly warned me about that sort of thing when I got my kettle helm.

i.e. don't game the rules cause then.... well.... you'll suck.

[Malcolmthebold]

I will not give names but one of my fav storys to listen to has an oppent calling shots to fast.

As in.Are you readdy ,both partys yes,lay on(sp) whaaack...umh to fast
Ok??
Again are you ready,both partys yes,lay on(sp again) Whack...umh still to fast I' wasn't ready.

Ummh Oki?
You just throw the first shot next time....

Or, you know.... don't start inside your opponents range silly.

so i learned this when fighting one of the former kings of Atenveldt. he is blind in one eye, and uses things like shield contact, sound, and his sense of touch (through the medium of the sword) to help him with depth perception. we were doing a pick up fight, and he touched his shield to mine, took one step back, and asked if i was ready. i said "yes". half a second later he knocked all of my memories before 3rd grade right out of my head. we squared up to do another fight, and he again touche his shield to mine, took one step back and asked if i was ready. this time i said "hell no!" i backed off about 15 feet, readied up, and said, "now we can do this" he just smiled and said "good, you're learning."

[BendSinister]

I have heard other fighters say that because my spear shaft touched their hand, knee, tongue of the belt, or shield basket the the thrust to the head, face, chest, stomach or leg was not any good. Same thing with sword blows and even a few times that my axe to their face was not any good cause the haft touched their shield. So all I could do was repeat till the fight was done. I find that the people who find reasons not to take blows will always find reasons not to take the blows.

The rule set once stated that "A blow that strikes an object simultaneously with striking the combatant need not be accepted - if it fails to deliver sufficient impact." I think that a lot of the people who are dis regarding blows "Cause it hit X." are reading only as far as the first part of the sentence and forgetting the rest.

I note that this rule is no longer "On the Books" so be it.

BS

[Ludewic]

How about, after a nice and clean hit pretty high on the side of the helmet "Nope, that was a miss, my persona is shorter than I am".

(though meant as a joke, and immediately followed by "damn that was a good shot")

[Armand d'Alsace]

A good blow is a good blow.

Now if you put it to me flat, or if it was haft you'd have to tell me, since I really cannot distinguish between the sensation of being hit with a piece of rattan, rattan wrapped in duct tape or a piece of rattan wrapped in duct tape and one extra layer of contrasting tape.

Same thing if my weapon strikes me a good blow with proper orientation. It's a good blow.

And for the people whose personas have a lot longer legs than themselves, consider themselves armed and armoured differently than the rest of us:

We are considered to wear the same things. What you wear in the list is my striking surface, nothing else.

Judge the actual blows on the actual struck surface, and not some weird scene that's playing out in your head with actors of different sizes, armour, weapons, attributes, skills and motivations.

That stage is a different one.

[Matthew Richardson]

If my opponent's weapon hits me with sufficient force, I take the shot, no matter what it has hit on the way in. If I managed to get some type of a block from shield or weapon to slow it down below the "sufficient force" level, I don't consider it a good blow and I don't take, but will acknowledge what it hit coming in.

Mathghamhain

[Dietrich von Stroheim]

If the shot lands with sufficient force, it's good regardless of what it hit.

But, I've found that it doesn't take much to rob a shot of power...even a partial punch block from the sword, or catching part of it with your shield, usually takes off most of the force.

I've actually only had it happen one time where I threw a shot that the opponent parried, and it still hit hard enough to be a telling blow--and that was an oberhau from my greatsword.

[MJBlazek]

+1 on the gauntlet cuff.

I really hate those ugly as sin plastic "bear claws" gauntlets. See guys wearing them with cuffs nearly to the elbow... And take them all as "cuff shots".

.

If it wasn't already well past time to do it I would suggest a 2 inch cuff on gauntlets rule that way if it hit the cuff it wouldn't be any good and if it didn't it would be easy to tell. I wish more fighters made their equipment with things like that in mind.

Respectfully disagreeing.
It is up to the honor of the fighter to honestly call the shot on his arm and not the cuff.
I wear gauntlets that have a longer cuff because that's how they were historically made, and it is what they should look like. And I have never used them as an excuse to shrug off a good arm shot.

I really think that a rule like this would put an inherent mistrust in the honor of the combatants.
I am charged on my honor, a key value of our game, to call a good shot true. If it hits in a legal target, even if that legal target is covered by my gauntlet cuff, then the shot will be called good.
And then I will die, because you can't really fight great sword one handed!

[white mountain armoury]

+1 on the gauntlet cuff.

I really hate those ugly as sin plastic "bear claws" gauntlets. See guys wearing them with cuffs nearly to the elbow... And take them all as "cuff shots".

.

If it wasn't already well past time to do it I would suggest a 2 inch cuff on gauntlets rule that way if it hit the cuff it wouldn't be any good and if it didn't it would be easy to tell. I wish more fighters made their equipment with things like that in mind.

I wear a wisby style gauntlet, the splinted cuff is a major portion of my forearm protection.
I see no reason to restrict cuff/equipment design to account for a problem few who have difficulty with blow acknowledgment.
It is better to correct individual behavior than to forbid an accepted and proved design.

[Syrfinn]

I've actually personally witnessed a knight claiming that any shots that hit his white belt don't count.



Admittedly, this was a rather long time ago...but it did happen. I wasn't the only witness either.

Why do you think I wear a 4" roman white belt.

[asbrand]

LOL

[Baron Alejandro]

Why do you think I wear a 4" roman white belt.

I have been to an all-you-can-eat buffet with Kane.

You <i>do not mess</i> with those of O'Shannon lineage unless you have a pack of disposable cronies to throw at them first.

[Kilkenny]

If the shot lands with sufficient force, it's good regardless of what it hit.

But, I've found that it doesn't take much to rob a shot of power...even a partial punch block from the sword, or catching part of it with your shield, usually takes off most of the force.

I've actually only had it happen one time where I threw a shot that the opponent parried, and it still hit hard enough to be a telling blow--and that was an oberhau from my greatsword.

This depends very much on how you throw your blow and how you make your weapons. I use heavier swords than most people and I tend to drive shots more than snap them. There are some blocking techniques that simply don't work against this combination.

[Count Johnathan]

+1 on the gauntlet cuff.

I really hate those ugly as sin plastic "bear claws" gauntlets. See guys wearing them with cuffs nearly to the elbow... And take them all as "cuff shots".

.

If it wasn't already well past time to do it I would suggest a 2 inch cuff on gauntlets rule that way if it hit the cuff it wouldn't be any good and if it didn't it would be easy to tell. I wish more fighters made their equipment with things like that in mind.

I wear a wisby style gauntlet, the splinted cuff is a major portion of my forearm protection.
I see no reason to restrict cuff/equipment design to account for a problem few who have difficulty with blow acknowledgment.
It is better to correct individual behavior than to forbid an accepted and proved design.

I understand this however with a guantlet cuff, padding and a possible vambrace underneath it may be that the fighter simply didn't feel it at all rather than bad behavior. All I was saying is that a 2 inch cuff would ensure that this kind of misunderstanding would not occur. Sometimes equipment being too good at it's job is to blame and needs some reduction in order for the wearer to actually feel shots. Like I said I would suggest something like that if it weren't already well past time to do so. Too many people already have such nice equipment that it would be unreasonable to make such a request or rule now.

Granted a fighter who is aware of a shot landing in a good spot and still calling it no good due to it striking a guantlet cuff is gaming the rules and needs an attitude adjustment but it's not always an intentional error. It's better not to assume that everyone wants to cheat and needs to be reprimanded. Shit happens man.

[Murdock]

"Hell. I take shots from my own sword if my block still hits my head hard enough."

i've actually taken to knocking peoples swords against their heads if they hold it too close to their face at practice


i spent a good hour about a week or 2 ago banging people's grill with their own sword


it was fun, the SCA equal of "why you hittin yourself?"

IF it's still hard after it hits something else and it lands right i'll take it. That doesn't happen very often to most people.

And if they don't take it ? Just hit em again more cleanly. They just gave yo the gift of the body and another few seconds of time on the field. Simply continuing the discussion on who has bested who. Just ask again with more emphasis of your position.

[Maeryk]

I knew a guy at one point who only had one edge on his sword. He'd go for that close-to-his-face guard just to sucker people into trying that move.

[Murdock]

Most people won't think to take it

so it's mainly an illustritive point for practice


Get people to extend their cone of defence

[Maeryk]

Most people won't think to take it

so it's mainly an illustritive point for practice


Get people to extend their cone of defence

Yup. I mean, the rules say you _have_ to take it.

[muttman]

meh. if a shot hits me with sufficiant force, I'll take it. if it doesn't, i won't. Not too complicated.
if I hit someone and they don't take it I have to hit them harder, where there is no armor, or both. Also not compicated.
There have been several times (twice in one tourney I won)I hit someone but it caught shield and they called it. I told them it hit shield and i wanted to make sure they were comfortable taking the shot. Evidently, sometimes I pivot off a shields edge because almost all of them said it was of more than sufficiant force. I let them take the shot at that point but only after making sure I didn't get a cheap victory.
if you don't take my shot during a fight, I don't discuss it. I try harder. If I don't take your shot in a fight, I don't discuss it, I try harder before you can do it again hard enough. I may discuss things after a fight but not during. My catch phrase is "if you had to think about it, it wasn't good"
Really I try to keep things simple
Drefan

[MJBlazek]

I think it would be a huge determent to the society as a whole to blatantly shrug off the proper historical design of armor, merely for the adoption of a rule to greater ensure the accepting of lower arm hits.

It would be outright punishing those for attempting to have more historically correct armor, and a trade off of a lofty goal for a lesser one (even if it be based in the best of intentions for the sport. as the saying goes however, the road to hell...)

I wear full steel arms... upper, lower and a long cuff off my gauntlet. I have never had a problem calling a shot to my forearm.

Where is the line drawn? At what point do the rules change so much that it really is nothing more than medievaloid stick tag, instead of a fair representation of Medieval Martial Combat?
You start at the cuff rule, then what? Spaulders cannot be over a certain span across the shoulder because people with large pauldrons can't "feel" the shot? Full plate must be lighter, or of a thinner gauge with no chain underneath because cap-a-pie fighters can't feel the shots?

At what point does history become the hindrance instead of the goal?



There is enough shrugging off of history for the sake of the sport.

[Baron Eirik]

meh. if a shot hits me with sufficiant force, I'll take it. if it doesn't, i won't. Not too complicated.
if I hit someone and they don't take it I have to hit them harder, where there is no armor, or both. Also not compicated.
There have been several times (twice in one tourney I won)I hit someone but it caught shield and they called it. I told them it hit shield and i wanted to make sure they were comfortable taking the shot. Evidently, sometimes I pivot off a shields edge because almost all of them said it was of more than sufficiant force. I let them take the shot at that point but only after making sure I didn't get a cheap victory.
if you don't take my shot during a fight, I don't discuss it. I try harder. If I don't take your shot in a fight, I don't discuss it, I try harder before you can do it again hard enough. I may discuss things after a fight but not during. My catch phrase is "if you had to think about it, it wasn't good"
Really I try to keep things simple
Drefan

In tourneys & melees, I agree for the most part. Although if my opponent asks a question, I will answer.

At practice, I prefer the 'immediate debrief' of letting each other know what happened. Mainly because I won't remember what happened in detail after a good series of fights.