Balsa Jousting Armour Conventions

ticeetal · Post by **ticeetal** » Thu Dec 24, 2009 1:28 am

Hello all,

I have been ridding since I was a youngster and over the last few years have began getting involved in Scadian equestrian activities. That was when I was bit by the jousting bug. Since then there has been trips to various classes and clinics offering jousting instruction, and personal classes with those more experienced than myself willing to spend some of their time to educate me more in the best practices in the discipline of the joust.

I have participated in the light contact Foam jousting and found it to be a good way to practice, and compete against a wider variety of individuals prior to graduating to the IJA balsa lances. Now I am excited to read that the BOD is giving consideration to implement the experimental use of the heavier lances and have followed the posts on the various user groups and here on the Archive with much interest.

The last topic regarding this balsa experiments had more to do with the implementation of an accepted set of rules and practices, and how much to follow the lead of such groups as the IJA & IJL and others. It was brought up on that thread, regarding the required gear for balsa jousting, but as was mentioned was more likely left to its own thread. So I ask others already involved, or ready to get involved what would you consider proper armour standards to compete in the balsa style of jousting.

Keeping with Historicâ€™s Mid. 15th. century theme, I have included a Gothic style export harness made be a mid to higher end armourer here to use as an example of a possible harness that may be more widely available to those who may be interested participating but on a budget. Note no helm is shown as 1) I could not find a proper picture of a frogmouth or other acceptable closed helm.

So I ask, from those who are the seasoned competitors, either in the IJA, IJL your opinions on this topic. I also would like to hear the opinions and comments from those wising to get started participating in the balsa experiment, or your plans to graduate up to the IJA, IJL and the preparations you had to make in order to do so.

Thanks,

LD. Odeane

ticeetal · Post by **ticeetal** » Thu Dec 24, 2009 1:28 am

Pict. 2

ticeetal · Post by **ticeetal** » Thu Dec 24, 2009 1:29 am

pict 3.

ticeetal · Post by **ticeetal** » Thu Dec 24, 2009 1:30 am

pict 4.

Leo Medii · Post by **Leo Medii** » Thu Dec 24, 2009 1:56 am

I wear a boxing wrist wrap.

Otherwise, the only real difference between my tournament harness and my tilting harness is I switch out one of my several late 14th C bascinets for a mid 15th C Italian great bascinet (it has rigid neck protection and not a maille covering).
Here is a pic of the helm, note the correct size ocular openings. SCA size ones should be avoided at all costs. The helm has attached rigid neck protection, and will touch the shoulders before allowing too much neck compression in case of a fall from the horse. Full arms, full legs, wide shoulder pauldron, STEEL breastplate (plastic is asking for injury), I have 3/4 greaves as it is a personal preference when riding. I use a ecranche target as I prefer it to the later period rigid guards for more horse control. You will want a left manifer, and a maille skirt. I do not have a maille skirt. I wish I did as I was struck twice low this summer.

I want to switch to an Italian 1450 body cuirass, but I do not have the funds to do that anytime soon since I am replacing my horse trailer with a better one to compete this summer. The tabard is only there to hide the fact that my body armor is not correct for the rest of the harness.

Rod Walker · Post by **Rod Walker** » Thu Dec 24, 2009 2:00 am

Wear a full period (whatever your period may be) harness.

Trust me on this.

zachos · Post by **zachos** » Thu Dec 24, 2009 5:31 am

I'm really not keen on that harness I'm afraid. There are problems with its shaping all over, and it looks like it wouldn't quite work for jousting. Just little things, but I'd want to see something that the maker made more recently before commissioning.

I'm in a similar place to you, although further down the line, and I would suggest doing what I am. Save up and slowly build a harness from very good armourers who already make for the jousting circuit. I'm personally having each part made by a different person, as that means I can choose the armourer that I think is best suited to each job. Also try and chat to other balsa jousters that know their stuff. I've had a couple really useful talks with people and possibly the most useful advice I got was spend more money on some items than others. Leg and arm armour isn't as important and breast and shoulder which isn't as important as head. And make sure its all made for you.

Oh yeah, finally, make sure the bottom of the placart is in the right place. many armourers that don't ride put this at the modern waist, where we wear trousers nowadays, but it should be at the bottom of the ribs, which is entirely different.

Chris G. · Post by **Chris G.** » Thu Dec 24, 2009 7:42 am

It doesn't have to be made for you, but it does have to fit.

My great bascinet that I bought from Rod Walker is actually the best fitting piece of armor I own, even though it wasn't made for me.

ticeetal · Post by **ticeetal** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 1:57 am

Greetings,

Since off the shelf armour will not work.. If I were to look for armouer who specialize in making harnesses for jousters where do I begin the search? Are there any armourerâ€™s herein the US who is able to make a serviceable harness in a price point below a Mac and Historic harness? Or is it best to look overseas?

Thank you and Happy New Year,

Odeane

Rod Walker · Post by **Rod Walker** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 2:17 am

Jiri Lucius did mine.

It's sexy and it works like a harness should.

Jeffrey Hedgecock · Post by **Jeffrey Hedgecock** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 2:19 am

Jousting armour needs to fit and be built correctly. Period.

Off the shelf armour can work-- see above.

For custom made armour to work well, it also needs to fit and be made correctly. Just because something's custom made or made to order, it doesn't necessarily mean it will fit or be built correctly. There are many armourers out there who don't have the first clue about making well fitting armour and/or making it work properly. Many make armour way too big and think it fits well. Armour should fit like a second skin. Fittings are essential, even if it's the armourer sending the rough parts to you for photos.

Good armour costs money. What's your well being worth?

I don't say this as defense of my prices. I say this to safeguard your welfare, and the welfare of the people you play with. You should do your homework. An educated customer benefits the armouring process as much as an educated armourer.

Armour's an investment financially as well as to your health. Treat it with the gravity it deserves and you will not regret it. You'll also spend less in the long run.

ticeetal · Post by **ticeetal** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 3:28 am

Hello Jeff,

----Good armour costs money. What's your well being worth? I don't say this as defense of my prices. I say this to safeguard your welfare, and the welfare of the people you play with. You should do your homework. An educated customer benefits the armouring process as much as an educated armourer.----

Please donâ€™t take my listing you and Mac together in a negative light. It was not intended to disparage you or Historic or the prices for your armour in any way but to only serve as a benchmark for a high end, top-shelf harness.

When I originally posted this thread it was to get a better idea as to the different armour currently available and an idea of the armourers out there who made such harnesses available not to just go for the lowest price point (thought that is still a major consideration to most) but to also see all the other possible alternatives available. If I could afford to I would buy from you, not just because you work is quite beautiful, but also because you are local to me (about 1.5 HR. from my house) and Ramona is a nice little town.

Iâ€™m looking forward to the Scadian balsa experiments, and if time permitting and your blessing, to attend class or more at your Knight School in 2010.

Regards,

Matthew

(aka/sca, Odeane)

Lloyd · Post by **Lloyd** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 10:18 am

Rod Walker wrote:Wear a full period (whatever your period may be) harness.

Trust me on this.

Ditto. Pieces from the same period work much better together and prevent a lot of injuries. Mixing period armour led to many armour bites, deep bruises, and one or two broken bones, for me at least.

The advice of buying armour from an armourer that jousts, or who has a long history of building joust harnesses is very on point. It has to fit you right in order to actually be protective. I have seen a lot of broken hands and wrists because the lower cannon on the right arm was just a shade too long.

Black Swan Designs · Post by **Black Swan Designs** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:24 pm

Matthew-

It remains to be seen how much we will be allowed to help the SCA with their efforts to get balsa jousting going, but please know Knight School is open to anyone, and everyone is welcome.

Gwen