Slow blade work in SCA combat

Bedlam · Post by **Bedlam** » Fri May 25, 2001 10:25 am

Are there any rules or recognized conventions for slow/sneaky fighting tactics in the SCA?
Specifically, at the Aethelmearc war practice, while the spearmen were poking at the faces of the opposing shield wall, I would take my glaive and snake it up and under the shield and get my thrust into the the waist/inner thigh/groin area of my opponent. I then quickly increased pressure until I drove the fighter off balance and/or back. I also did this during some of the oppositions shield charges. At one point I ended up putting a sheildman onto the hay bails of the pass battle.
Each time the thrust was in a "soft" spot and each time they were ignored.

Comments?

BEDLAM

Constancius · Post by **Constancius** » Fri May 25, 2001 10:47 am

Move the thrusting tip from side to side on the inside of the thighs. That should gettheir attention. I know it would get mine. IF that don't work. thrust as usual. they'll learn one way or another.

------------------
Constancius of Lincolnshire

animis corporibusque

Kyle · Post by **Kyle** » Fri May 25, 2001 11:20 am

Bedlam,
They're obligated to take anything they think would've been a telling blow. Remember that the "assumed" coverage of a chainmaile hauberk would cover the armpits against a lighter blow. Also remember that most Scadians are geared to recognizing short, fast impacts rather than a progressive push; not that a "push" blow would be any less valid against a static opponent. I'd recommend getting your placement, and then giving a short hard shove. I also certainly can't rule out that some people were a little thick-skinned, although I didn't personally see anything that gave me pause...I was too busy dodging spears and sneaky guys with polearms!

- Kyle

Morgan · Post by **Morgan** » Fri May 25, 2001 3:49 pm

I had a fight once where my opponent didn't take a hard pushing downward kinda thing in the chest. Afterwards, he came up rubbing his chest saying, "I think that may have been good."

I think it's a matter of the fact that we're not trained to take those. Some people would probably assume (perhaps rightly) that you wouldn't have injured the person...just pushed them back and it would have hurt, but nothing else.

I'd think you'd have a tough time pushing a spear head through chain maile if I'm standing there unbraced. You can push me back, but not through the chain. Just my thought on it.

------------------
Be bold and mighty forces will come to your aid.

Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
http://www.geocities.com/morgunnmac

horsefriend · Post by **horsefriend** » Fri May 25, 2001 3:59 pm

"it was just a push!"(frequently heard)

Slow steady pushes are seldom counted unless they are in an unarmored spot. When playing with a riveted mail sample I found that a push with steadily increasing force almost never penetrated more than the width of a ring unless the target and mail was RIGIDLY braced.
The one time a point went through was when a ring went elliptical and the rivet pulled, point went in about an inch before stopping again. This leads me to believe a lot of pushes should not be counted unless in the face, groin etc.
On the other hand, we play as armoured out here in most wars, and while a push is of little use against mail or plate, it's damnedly effective against "pad boys" and PPs, and a fair number will count it, particullarly if you get eye contact, grin, and make a skewering gesture.

Alail

Ulrich · Post by **Ulrich** » Fri May 25, 2001 4:11 pm

If I'm In a line and feel/see you "Pushing/tapping" on me with the pokey end of your spear, I will _usually_ (read 95% of the time) assume you could have really stuck me, call it good, thank you after the fight for not taking the opprotunity to break one of my ribs.

on the other hand if, I feel you pushing/tapping on me in the

"thigh/groin area"
or other
""soft" spot"
_intentionally_ then I will take the shot, and we'll have an immidiate "chat".

Gaston · Post by **Gaston** » Fri May 25, 2001 6:48 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Ulrich:
...on the other hand if, I feel you pushing/tapping on me in the

"thigh/groin area"
or other
""soft" spot"
_intentionally_ then I will take the shot, and we'll have an immidiate "chat".<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Whatever for? It's a legal target, and he was gracious enough not to hammer you there (which is also legal). If you chat with him, it should be to say "Thank you".

Richard Blackmoore · Post by **Richard Blackmoore** » Fri May 25, 2001 9:56 pm

Gaston. In the East, blows to the groin are counted. But if a blow is thrown to the groin intentionally it is grounds for censure. Throwing blows repeatedly to the groin unintentionally indicates that you have a lack of ability to control your weapon and is also grounds for censure.

In a nutshell, if you hit people in the groin consistantly, you will either be considered to be unskilled or unsportsmanlike.

Gaston · Post by **Gaston** » Fri May 25, 2001 10:23 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Richard Blackmoore:
Gaston. In the East, blows to the groin are counted. But if a blow is thrown to the groin intentionally it is grounds for censure. Throwing blows repeatedly to the groin unintentionally indicates that you have a lack of ability to control your weapon and is also grounds for censure.

In a nutshell, if you hit people in the groin consistantly, you will either be considered to be unskilled or unsportsmanlike.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"In a nutshell"? I can imagine a tongue firmly planted in cheek while that was being typed.

I've always told new folks "it's a legal target, but it's not a good way to make friends".

I personally consider it unsportsmanlike to intentionally target the groin, but that's my personal values and not necessarily theirs. I thought it was nice of Bedlam to just push gently when he could legally jab there. To me it was a nonverbal "Milord, do you realize you have an opening in your defense here?".

[This message has been edited by Gaston (edited 05-25-2001).]