The Armour Archive

Brennus of Edes wrote:Wow.. how did his hand feel after that if you were seeing stars?

awesome vid though.

He didn't feel a thing. They are pretty solid gauntlets, padded with 2 layers of nice spongy wool. There's an extra articulating plate that when I close my fist covers the knuckles and about a half in of the fingers.

LOL

Oh God, I did that once at practice.

I was training a new guy (at steel not SCA so he was only wearing clothes and gloves whereas I had full plate) and suddenly he went full speed and dived at me. Something about it kicked off my lizard brain and I kneed him in the groin as was about to pound him into the floor when I came to my senses!

It gave me a shock although my apology had to wait until he could stand properly after getting a plate knee full power in the knackers.

sweet video isabella!

had almost the same thing happen in police academy back in the day. female wanted to test her metal, so one of us punched her in the head. i caught her... she was fine. nice little stun is all.

the first shot i ever threw in sca armour was a jab... with a shield attached to my hand... didnt connect, just made me look rediculous.

That knee to the groin pic...let me guess.

Unbelted Champions?

Vitus von Atzinger wrote:That knee to the groin pic...let me guess.

Unbelted Champions?

Why on earth would you ever guess that Sir?

Vitus von Atzinger wrote:That knee to the groin pic...let me guess.

Unbelted Champions?

That was our wee Baron Karl Meerstapa, of Duchy Von Drachenklaue. He weighs about 140lbs soaking wet, and looking at the picture, I think he was being pushed back and the stumble caused the leg lift. Karl doesn't have a nasty bone in his body...Of course, that doesn't mean that he won't take your head off with a legal shot...

Varus - East

Doesnt look like it stopped him from putting a sword bendin' wrap into the left leg though

Logan of Seaforth wrote:Doesnt look like it stopped him from putting a sword bendin' wrap into the left leg though

You would know about sword bending leg shots too..

Erin wrote:sweet video isabella!

had almost the same thing happen in police academy back in the day. female wanted to test her metal, so one of us punched her in the head. i caught her... she was fine. nice little stun is all.

the first shot i ever threw in sca armour was a jab... with a shield attached to my hand... didnt connect, just made me look rediculous.

Sadly it was short lived. Some guys will never accept that a woman can do the job.

Gregoire de Lyon wrote:

Vitus von Atzinger wrote:That knee to the groin pic...let me guess.

Unbelted Champions?

Why on earth would you ever guess that Sir?

I must be really dumb, I did not get that.

Glaukos the Athenian wrote:I must be really dumb, I did not get that.

In the past, the Unbelted Champions Battles have had a reputation for being fought in the "gray area" and often times quite brutally.

Given what we see in the picture (the whole picture) it was a very logical guess. I was laughing and agreeing with Sir Vitus because it was the same thought that I had the first time I saw the picture.

You think that first pic is harsh? I took an M4 butt to the cheekbone last week......

First time I ever fought my brother with polearms, I trapped his spear on the ground with mine and stepped in. He stepped in as well and punched me in the head. He not only made me bleed despite the fact I was wearing a helmet, but he also damaged the gauntlets he was wearing (they weren't great gauntlets to be fair). Still, Good times.

Dang, this is some EMP-type shit, huh?

Ballin' video, awesome pics. Moar brutality.

Heath B fraychef wrote:many many years a go i was fighting a young gentleman who i was having social issues with.
while fighting i legged him then stepped in and punched his left eye as hard as i could with my basket hilt.
it bent his new helm a bit and he took the shot.
then promptly complained that "some people" were hitting a little excessivly.

??? SO did you _mean_ to hit him with your baskethilt in the eye?
'Cause if ya did, well, that _WOULD_ be excessive...


EDWARD Z

oh i meant it.
i seem to have left out some details of the story but he was an ass and had it coming for sure.
i found humor in his complaint simply because he had issues taking shots in the first place.
and like i said it was many years ago and im not really proud of it.

I can't imagine under what circumstances a deliberate baskethilt-to-the-face is appropriate on an SCA field.

If the dude needed an ass-whuppin', by all means, deliver, just not in that venue.

I accidentally shield-punched a fellow fighter at practice several years ago. I lost my footing while throwing a snap and swung my shield arm out as he was moving to my left ands pow...I put the edge of my heater at a neat angle across the left occular of his barrel helm. Left a nice crease and apologized profusely.

A few months later a guy shield-punched me in the chest during a big melee. I took a break, bent the upper plates in my Wisby harness back into shape and went out looking for him. He recognized me, I engaged him properly, and bested him fairly, saluted and we went back to having fun.

Of course, my wife hit me in the grill with her basket while I was training her to fight...but she's a lefty, and I may have deserved it.

Vilhelm550 wrote:Of course, my wife hit me in the grill with her basket while I was training her to fight...but she's a lefty, and I may have deserved it.

Lol....

I remember a Pennsic long ago when someone in my previous household stabbed a guy with a spear and he kept coming.
Friend choked up on the spear, stabbed him and the guy kept coming. He choked up again now just holding it below the head of the spear, stabbed the guy and... he kept coming. My friend then slipped his forward hand over the spear head and hit the guy in the face with his gauntlet with a stabbing motion kind of cupping the tip. The guy yelled GOOOD! and fell over.

We just looked at each other and shrugged. Then the rest of the other guys team hit us...a lot. SCA combat is funny sometimes.

My first couple of fighter practices my ingrained instincts would take over when I was pressed and I would hit my opponent with a 1-2 jab...left jab (with shield edge)followed by a very stout right hook (with the attached basket hilt)...

Sir Varus wrote:

Vitus von Atzinger wrote:That knee to the groin pic...let me guess.

Unbelted Champions?

That was our wee Baron Karl Meerstapa, of Duchy Von Drachenklaue. He weighs about 140lbs soaking wet, and looking at the picture, I think he was being pushed back and the stumble caused the leg lift. Karl doesn't have a nasty bone in his body...Of course, that doesn't mean that he won't take your head off with a legal shot...

Varus - East

That shot is from the Pennsic unbelted melee tournament - 2009 I think - not the Champions fight.

Most importantly, look at how Karl is throwing the ass wrap at the same time as the knee...

Saburou wrote:

Sir Varus wrote:

Vitus von Atzinger wrote:That knee to the groin pic...let me guess.

Unbelted Champions?

That was our wee Baron Karl Meerstapa, of Duchy Von Drachenklaue. He weighs about 140lbs soaking wet, and looking at the picture, I think he was being pushed back and the stumble caused the leg lift. Karl doesn't have a nasty bone in his body...Of course, that doesn't mean that he won't take your head off with a legal shot...

Varus - East

That shot is from the Pennsic unbelted melee tournament - 2009 I think - not the Champions fight.

Most importantly, look at how Karl is throwing the ass wrap at the same time as the knee...

yeah...looks flat to me


not the knee... the wrap

Yes there are three things wrong with that picture that I see at a glance.

Greylond wrote:I can't imagine under what circumstances a deliberate baskethilt-to-the-face is appropriate on an SCA field.

If the dude needed an ass-whuppin', by all means, deliver, just not in that venue.

yeah well,
like i mentioned before it was a long time ago.
and i guess you just had to know this guy or actually be in my shoes.

On hitting people with your basket hilt.

For experienced fighters - do you think it's possible to hit someone with your basket hilt and not KNOW that it was your basket that hit them? For example, lets say you throw a short stick "punch" shot. I admit that sometimes you can miss and basket the guy - but can you basket someone and THINK that you threw a real short stick at them?

Does it matter if you have a metal vs. plastic (cup) hilt?

depends on the siduation.
single combat most likely can tell the difference.
in a war though when you are in the press ive "accidentally" killed friends
standing next to me by whacking their helm with my elbow cop.
happended once when we werent even engagen with the enemy just maneuvering around.
shifted my sword arm bonked the helm, he said GOOD! and backed out of the shield wall.

Sigifrith Hauknefr wrote:On hitting people with your basket hilt.

For experienced fighters - do you think it's possible to hit someone with your basket hilt and not KNOW that it was your basket that hit them? For example, lets say you throw a short stick "punch" shot. I admit that sometimes you can miss and basket the guy - but can you basket someone and THINK that you threw a real short stick at them?

Does it matter if you have a metal vs. plastic (cup) hilt?

Would a "stick punch" ever do significant damage were it a real sword?

Arrakis wrote:Would a "stick punch" ever do significant damage were it a real sword?

I don't really know but for SCA fighting I don't think it's relevant. I don't buy the "mail standard".

I do know that with a STICK, when done properly it hits EXTREMELY hard (relative to other strike stirkes). Like bottoming out helms hard. Like confused with basket hilt strikes hard.

Well, yeah. You're punching a guy. Why do you think punch weapons are disallowed in so many games?

I was just wondering if it was a shot that should be thrown considering the conceit of the game. Especially given the playability issues with confusing them with basket hilt shots, do you think people should even be throwing them?

You rocketh, Lady E!


Val

Sigifrith Hauknefr wrote:On hitting people with your basket hilt.

For experienced fighters - do you think it's possible to hit someone with your basket hilt and not KNOW that it was your basket that hit them? For example, lets say you throw a short stick "punch" shot. I admit that sometimes you can miss and basket the guy - but can you basket someone and THINK that you threw a real short stick at them?

Does it matter if you have a metal vs. plastic (cup) hilt?

It probably makes it a little harder to recognize if it's a plastic basket hilt. I really think you have to be out of body or something to not recognize that you just hit them with your fist, not with the stick extending out from your fist. The sensation is radically different in how and where you feel it in your hand and forearm.

As to the subsequent question of whether we should be throwing them "given the conceit of the game" - I view part of our game as rediscovering things that might have worked. Considering just how much force can be delivered with these kinds of blows, I don't think there's any room for doubt but that they would have been useful in period. I also am not prepared to believe that the manuals that have survived, been translated and are known contain all the information that our predecessors had.

Fair enough. Plus, quillion strikes are known to have been used in period and low-stick "stick punching" strikes replace them fairly accurately, I suppose.

Sounds legit.

I just wanted to point out that the pic of my squire and I is an optical illusion. He wanted to close just as I was throwing a slot shot and it hit him at the very base of the sword. The angle of the photo made it look cool as hell, so I posted it.

Personally, basket hits are a part of the game. Sometimes they happen. Unless done deliberate, no harm no foul.