The Armour Archive

Hello was wondering if anyone else has this problem of it its just me

i have been training long and had on Italian two hand sword fighting style and have come across a horrible realization that while wearing my sallet and gorget i cant turn my head to do some of the fighting moves ..........

now i have invested to much money, time ect into my armour to change the style altogether, but is there a helm that will allow me to turn my head and still fits with gothic armour ? I also have a closed helm and it the the same thing was thinking of a armet but wont i have the same problem ? did they still use bascinet during that time ????????

why didn't the Germans like to turn there heads dam it

regards Lord Tofu

Most closed face helms are intended for cavalry tactics. That means hit hard, take hard hits, and get out, no need to look to your sides. As a result, cavalry helms tent to cover the breast as you've noticed with the bevor on the sallet and gorget on the closehelm.

Does your group allow gaps in helms? If so, simply fight without the bevor, or fight with a loose bevor (not connecting with the sallet)
If you don't want to sacrifice throat protection, a bellow faced sallet may be a good idea. They tend to curve in at the bottom, so they keep shots away from the neck.

Your period (mid/late 15th century?) will affect what helms you can use, obviously. By the 15th century though, the bascinet had been all but replaced by the great bascinet, which are notorious for not allowing good head motion!

Lord_Tofu wrote:Hello was wondering if anyone else has this problem of it its just me

i have been training long and had on Italian two hand sword fighting style and have come across a horrible realization that while wearing my sallet and gorget i cant turn my head to do some of the fighting moves ..........

now i have invested to much money, time ect into my armour to change the style altogether, but is there a helm that will allow me to turn my head and still fits with gothic armour ? I also have a closed helm and it the the same thing was thinking of a armet but wont i have the same problem ? did they still use bascinet during that time ????????

why didn't the Germans like to turn there heads dam it

regards Lord Tofu

In answer to your questions, consider this:
Most of the longsword techniques are meant to be done unarmoured, and so certain techniques may not work as you expect. Also consider that "half sword" techniques are the most appropriate use for a longsword whilst in armour. As to the helm, the bascinet and armet were quite popular with the Italians (at least that's what appears in Fiore's works) and the German manuals do indeed depict sallets...maybe it's the design of yours (nothing personal), lots of the armour that our ancestors felt was safe wouldn't meet our standards today.

Can you move your head sideways within your bevor or is it firmly strapped to the chin? I was under the impression that they were generally loose and allowed the head to move within the chin cup.

In my experience my demo kit did restrict my mobility and certain actions while fighting. Also my demo kit protected me a little too well and I got lazy about blocking certain shots because it was more painful/tiring for my arm to move the shield then it was painful to receive the shot... so to answer your original questions: Yes my own armor has detrimentally affected my fighting. Took me years to undo the damage. There is a reason the pinnacle of SCA fighters perform in limited protective gear. Mobility is a requirement for both defense and offense.

Sean

while when i wear the bevor and helm my head is pretty much lock straight i can turn my head but only a little i do wear my sallet with a gorget instead of a bevor but the problem with that is my chin stick out and we use steel swordw and headshot count so iam worried that someone with hit me in the jaw and break bones

i also find my arms there isnt enough movement so i am change to floating arms to try and give me a little freedom .... when i get a chance to make them

okay so what did the German foot trooper wear ? what type of helm could i get that fits the armour and allows me to turn my head ?

Lord_Tofu wrote:...okay so what did the German foot trooper wear ? what type of helm could i get that fits the armour and allows me to turn my head ?

The answer is less...they wore a lot less gear.

It might be worth bearing in mind that our objectives and requirements for fighting in the SCA is not the same as those who faught on medieval battlefields. There are many many subtle differences between our two fighting styles as well as the obvious ones, I would not be suprised if some historic solutions do not work well for us.