The Armour Archive

For the longest time i thought i was one of the lighter hitting guys in my kingdom
especially of the knights
but i have been informed recently by some stout individuals
that that is not the case
i throw a lot of shots for unarmoured areas so that may have something to do with it
but i understand the question
and i really couldnt tell you what the actual damage from my shots feels like
have fun
zip

I'd say that you throw a 5-6 level shot, Zip. HE Justin is a consistent 8. HRM Eduard is also an 8, maybe a 9, depending on what shot he is throwing. I try to throw between 5-7. Don't want to hurt people but still have a bit of a rep.

Mathghamhain

I aim to strike with what i think of as proper mechanics and rely on my opponents for feedback as to wear on the light /hard my blows fall into.

hey mann
is that an 'Atenveldt' 5-6
'cause i hear us Atenveldters hit like nancys

Vitus von Atzinger wrote:I am now capable of throwing 8s, which is the limit in my opinion. 9 browns you out/knock you silly and a 10 is a KO.

People who throw 9 all the time should probably get a new car or semi-auto gun to make their wangs feel bigger. Giving people brain damage isn't cool.

Being able to throw in the 7-8 range all the time demands a completely different style of swinging than what I used to be known for (ultra speed).

This is the problem with using a numbered scale. Interpretation of the numbers is subjective. On my 1 to 10 scale 5s and below are unlikely to be accepted by my opponents while 9s and 10s are hard for sure but not excessive. 11s and above would be where folks start getting damaged, browned out and such. My 1 to 10 defines blows that are not in the excessive range. Perhaps I should list it as a 1 to 15 scale with 1 through 5 being questioned as a joke and 11s to 15s being brown outs up to hospital time. That way people would understand what I feel is acceptable are the 6 to 10s on an average acceptable scale I have adapted through experience of facing folks from across the SCA over the years.

My friends and training partners let me know how I am striking at any given time and normally I strike with (using my personal scale) 7s and above while rarely exceeding 9s because it is not normally required in order for my opponents to accept the blow.

Personally, I've never hit anyone at anything approaching what I can - Though I've gotten a few "Hey D - drop it a couple notches, OK?"

If you are out there DELIBERATELY throwing hard enough to possibly injure (assuming that is a 10), you don't need to be on the field.


.

zippy wrote:hey mann
is that an 'Atenveldt' 5-6
'cause i hear us Atenveldters hit like nancys

i think an aten 7 is like a 3-4 at best for the rest of the world.

seriously thugh i think i used to hit at what i would consider a good solid 7 but since returning to combat after 6-7 years im probably only a high 5.
i feel sluggish and clumsy.
my body forgot everything.
i throw with mostly my arm, and my shots are just nowhere as crispas they used to be.
hell i used to win tourneys now i would be out after the first round.
i get 0 practice, the people who play near me are mostly clickish or are too involved in interior politicks for my taste to stand, so i play when i can and just have fun with what i can do.

I often ask for feedback. People are generally reluctant to tell you that you are hitting too hard so you have to look for non-verbal clues. Our new fighters generally don't want to spar with me and I don't blame them, although I'm happy to give lefty dukes 101 talks and do speed drills which greatly help fighters learn to block my fast attacks. I use Paul's power generation methods, but in unconventional ways to the confusion of my opponents.

Regards

Avery

my scale

1-3 from "you brushed me" to "you touched me"

4 "you touched me with intent, but not there yet"
5 What I accept as a minimal blow
6 "Oh yeah "
7 "wow!"
8 "woooooh, going to notice that tomorrow"
9 "ow, fucker!"
10 " Do we need to discuss something?"

I have dropped to throwing at a 4-5 on my scale most of the time.

When I am concentrating on finishing, I hit around 6-8, mostly in the 6 region.

On occasion, when in intense fights (my knight, other high level guys that I like and respect) an occasional 9 pops out when combined with good timing and body position. Most 9's feel almost like they are light when I deliver them. It's because of the dynamics.

That's weird to me. A 1 to 10 scale should be what is thrown at an ok level ( meaning you are unlikely to cause serious injury) and anything above that scale should be what is considered excessive.

A guy throwing 10s doesn't bother me. An 11 is where I might say someone should tone it down a bit because we're all buddies here.

I hit hard enough that people almost always take my shots if I hit clean, and a fair amount of the time even if I hit a little sloppy. The small mumber of people I have difficulty hitting hard enough seem to pretty consistently be the same people everyone else also has difficulty hitting hard enough.

zippy wrote:hey mann
is that an 'Atenveldt' 5-6
'cause i hear us Atenveldters hit like nancys

It's an Aten 5-6...

Has anyone everr tried using one of those machines that test the force of your hitting. The psi machines or whatever they are?

DO those things even work?

Blaine de Navarre wrote:I hit hard enough that people almost always take my shots if I hit clean, and a fair amount of the time even if I hit a little sloppy. The small mumber of people I have difficulty hitting hard enough seem to pretty consistently be the same people everyone else also has difficulty hitting hard enough.

Me too. Very rarely have I hit 'too hard', but it has happened. My husband, on the other hand, hits at the higher end range most of the time and if needed can put some serious power on. I've seen him put a dent in a 10 ga helm. He came from that old Phillip of Meade/Sir Yaroslav crowd. Phillip showed up for awhile during Gar and Ristol's reign and fought for awhile, but was told he hit way too hard and fought to butally and left never to return. I thought this was interesting as he was only slightly on the upper end of normal in the olden days.

Mikhail_Voronov wrote:Has anyone everr tried using one of those machines that test the force of your hitting. The psi machines or whatever they are?

DO those things even work?

I think this would work best but i don't know of anyone that has access to one. Also we could really only know what the numbers meant if there was a person on the receiving end of the blow to say how it felt.

I'd love to try it.

A 1-10 scale I think is the simplest way for one person to relate the force thrown to another and thus the reason we use it.

Just interesting to see the responses.

True, but like pain I'm sure it's really subjective and I'm not sure how useful it is to anyone outside the individual because of it. I've had patients having full blown heart attacks before say they only felt uncomfortable while someone else is sitting there in 10/10 pain but their vitals and demeanor tell another story.

zippy wrote:For the longest time i thought i was one of the lighter hitting guys in my kingdom
especially of the knights
but i have been informed recently by some stout individuals
that that is not the case
i throw a lot of shots for unarmoured areas so that may have something to do with it
but i understand the question
and i really couldnt tell you what the actual damage from my shots feels like
have fun
zip

I'd say you hit me pretty stoutly at Estrella....but your mustache kicked the shit out of me.

Those "+3 mustaches of Power" will get you every time.

Eirik wrote:Another possible issue in the results could be that there were visible markings displaying the range. You saw the circles drawn and knew how hard to hit to get it into the "good range".

Blind might have been more conclusive. Tell the participants to hit at what they think is a given level, then let the distances decide what is "light", "good" and "heavy".


Maybe.

It is my understanding that the markings for light good and heavy were determined by exactly the blind method you suggest. The testing was not prejudiced, but after sufficient data was available, the opportunity was provided for people to see where they fell in comparison to the original sampling.

Thank you, Sir Gavin. Your wisdom and knowledge are always appreciated.



Oh, and for the record, I asked last night. My intent was to throw a 4 or 5 as a starting point, and increase as necessary. When I asked my opponent he said "meh... about a 4 or a 5".

I think of the power scale as an internal thing--when I throw my shot, I may plan for it to be a 7, a 5, etc and apply muscle and body mechanics accordingly.

But how it actually lands is another matter entirely. I might throw what began as an 8, but my opponent takes a step to void it, so when it lands it is only a 4.

Of course, that goes both ways...sometimes I'll throw a shot that I only expect to be a 6 or so, but the results...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VN_MTmgaDk

...are quite unexpected!

I'm a solid middle/ upper middle Cynaguan fighter.

Except for one strait arm shot that I throw that feel's like fluff to me and to everyone I hit with it feels like a boulder, especially the lefties. It made my mom cry out a bit (most of that was her pauldrons we've talked to her about for years).

With work and school I've yet to get out to the field this year. Im feeling weak. So very Weak.

-Ivan

http://www.sca.org/ti/articles/1994/BlowCalib.html

Sean Powell wrote:One of these days I want to try to 'board breaking' test like they do in some karate demos. that is a direct measure of impact energy. We just need to find a cheap predictible target that can not be broken (or barely broken) with direct pressure. It's also important to hit the target like you were fighting it and not like you are trying to break boards. Training to break boards will cause you to develop certain habits that are different then the way we actually fight.

Sean

http://www.karatedepot.com/tr-bo-01.html

Eirik wrote:Another possible issue in the results could be that there were visible markings displaying the range. You saw the circles drawn and knew how hard to hit to get it into the "good range".

Blind might have been more conclusive. Tell the participants to hit at what they think is a given level, then let the distances decide what is "light", "good" and "heavy".

That is the way you are supposed to do it. Measure it afterwards.

No idea. It would be extremely interesting to find an objective way to measure blow force. There are a million variables in a rattan sword blow from the rigidity of the rattan to allowing the force to transfer to the target before you recover the shot (a lot of folks snap their sword back before it can deliver all it's force)

A slow moving shot with good follow through can feel like a thousand of bricks, where a lighting fast shot with no follow through can be loud as a gunshot but hardly wiggle your helm.

I base my personal scale on what my collective opponent takes. Thousands of shots have taught me what is almost always "Light" "Maybe" "Good" and "Wow!" I feel the impact in my hand, I know how hard I threw, I know (usually) if they caught some on their shield or sword or if the shot hit solid or glanced off. In the fraction of a second the impact takes all this is registered and their reaction is also stored.

I also know from experience that if you hit a brand newbie with a 4 they will often dance and think you are brutalizing them. It takes a while to get used to being hit with a stick.


-Justus

I think I hit on the lower end (not on purpose). I think this because I hear "light" a lot, though it is getting better. It's also mostly concentrated in a couple of shots - not everything I throw is light. I guess if I had to put a number on it I think I throw 4's to 7's, not as consistent as I would like.

Just this weekend though I was fighting pole v. pole and I asked my opponent what he thought of the blow, since I felt a lot of it in my hands when I blocked it but it hit my helm anyway. He said, "I couldn't have hit you any harder than that." I was pretty taken aback, so after ten seconds of trying to explain that I had blocked at least SOME of it, I just said good and we went back to pickups. The force of our blows is not always a simple thing.

Adam

I try and throw an even "5" IMO. A great number of things my opponent can do will change that shot. If they dodge it or bleed off power, it can land REALLY wimpy.

If they move into the shot it can land excessively sometimes. That happened recently. A very good fighter dodged my fake overhead smash by leaning really far back, and then rocked his head forward as I came in for the one-handed facethrust with a pollaxe.

There are times when for some reason my body mechanics are WAY off and I throw a 1 to 3. And then if it lands, I request we refight because it just felt wrong.

I have absolutely how hard I hit,. I can usually define, for myself, how hard my shots land by the recoil into my hand and the sound a shot makes...but I have no idea how to quantify it in numbers.

I don't know how hard I hit either. I just throw my shots, and if the other guy says 'good', I salute him and carry on. If he says 'light', I keep fighting. This is the extent of my calibration.

I don't think I have many levels of force, and I certainly don't have a nuke.

The bowling ball test seem to work nicely for flat snaps. You have to throw a basic "pass the soup" flat snap hitting with the sweet spot on the sword (2/3 - 3/4 mark on the blade)

any kind of right cross or hammer shot pushes the ball and screws with the test.

PS - never test a wrap shot unless you like bowling balls on the feet.

PSS - Vitus .. 8 ... really? Once you hit me in the leg when I had some quarters in my pocket. You managed to squeeze a booger out of Washington's nose with that shot. If thats an 8 I think a 10 would have me on the ground mouthing 9-1-1.

I do not do anywhere near as much fighting as I would like and in West Dragonshire we do not have that many active fighters - however:

My personal effort when I throw a shot is probably 8 or 9. I could put more strength in if I need to but I am pretty sure that will lead to more of an impact than is needed.

I think I actually land at about a 6 or 7 in terms of the area's calibration. I am certainly not a hard hitter but normally my blows get taken when they land properly.