How to make a Greatsword ?

Gregor von · Post by **Gregor von** » Thu Mar 14, 2002 9:48 am

I'm getting ready to make a greatsword and was wondering what the standard rule is for the length. I've heard many different things like: It should be no longer then shoulder to toe. or it should be chin to toe. and lastly I heard .....just make it six feet. How do you guy's set up your and why?
Thanks

Alcyoneus · Post by **Alcyoneus** » Thu Mar 14, 2002 10:30 am

6', because I like it that way, and it is the max. Any length of weapon will work, the tactics used will change though.

Some will take much more work than others.

James B. · Post by **James B.** » Thu Mar 14, 2002 11:04 am

I set my greatswords up to the measurements of true swords. Look in a book of arms for blade and handle lengths of the sword you want.

Flonzy

Morgan · Post by **Morgan** » Thu Mar 14, 2002 11:19 am

Yeah, it depends on what you WANT. You want a bastard sword? You want a claymore? You want a zweihander? (I'm sure I spelled that wrong)... what are you trying to recreate? As for "the best length to fight with" well, there is no such thing. Any arbigrary measurements like "up to your chin" are b.s. Every length of sword had different applications and different people were more or less effective with them. I'd bet there were some SHORT stoudt guys who were AWESOME with swords that were longer than their body, for example. So, my advice...play with some other peoples GS and see what you like. In addition to length, make sure you realize that different rattan has different thickness as well...it's not just the length, but the girth, is what I'm saying.

Lots of factors involved if you're trying for the "best figthing sword for you."

SO that's the first question...you looking for the best sword to fight with for you? Try a bunch. Looking to recreate a specific sword? Find out it's historical length and weight and try to get as close to that as possible.

hjalmr · Post by **hjalmr** » Thu Mar 14, 2002 12:01 pm

I would recommend making a 6' Greatsword for now, and look around for a true length sword in the meanwhile. If you deside to change the length in the next week or so -you'll have the experience of using a 6' greatsword and can relate to it.

(^_^)

Kyle · Post by **Kyle** » Thu Mar 14, 2002 12:37 pm

And to amplify Hjalmr's point, you can always cut a piece of rattan shorter, but lengthening it is a b!%(#...

I fight with two different ones;
One is 5'10" (my height, but not why I cut it that length), and medium weight. I prefer it for sniping in melees, or for taking on other great-weaponers. When my form is on, using it is like dancing with a hefty but graceful woman.

The other one is about 4'2". I've added to the weight of the blade by running a 2" strip of heater hose up each edge, and it was a hefty piece of rattan to begin with. I prefer it when I anticipate lots of close-in fighting, like against a sword-and-boarder. Using it is like trying to wrestle a wolverine into a sack, but I can do tricks with it that I just can't pull off with the longer one...

On both greatswords, I have the maximum allowable grip (18"); I like all the leverage I can get. I don't have a pommel weight, but I do put a leather "collar" on the pommel. The collar makes me feel more secure when I do the occasional one-handed thrust or swing (clumsy, but it catches some people by surprise).

- Kyle (greatsword conniseuer?)

Derian le Breton · Post by **Derian le Breton** » Thu Mar 14, 2002 1:58 pm

Out of what material? For what purpose? According to who's rules?

This very well might not be for the SCA.

-Donasian.

Diglach Mac Cein · Post by **Diglach Mac Cein** » Thu Mar 14, 2002 5:00 pm

How to make a greatsword?

Start with a good sword and practice a lot.....

Richard Blackmoore · Post by **Richard Blackmoore** » Thu Mar 14, 2002 5:31 pm

It depends on your size, reach, strength, style and whether you want it for general SCA use or only for a specific kingdom or tourney. Some people use quite different weapons for single vs. melee (my bastard sword is kind of useless if I am behind a large shield wall in melee). Some kingdoms have their own great sword rules for things like length and quillion design/size. Others like the East are slowly going to SCA minimums for this kind of stuff. Sometimes a given tournament will have specific rules.

You could do what I do, have at least two great swords with you at all times, one that is max length or close to it and a bastard sword. Then you can be prepared for several scenarios. I finally put a thrusting tip on my weapons after most kingdoms went to face thrusting. It makes them much more deadly especially against weapon and shield, it is fun, but I would still like the game better with no thrusting in singles tourneys with matched great swords or bastard swords. It is a lot harder to hit a skilled opponent with an edge than it is to thrust against him. So I find that sort of combat more challenging and therefore more rewarding, but, each to his own.

At Pennsic XXV I wrote "Your Face Here" on the big stupid looking thrusting tips they make us use. So if it had to be non-period, at least it was funny in a funny way. Amazing how many people tried to read it and ended up impaled. There is a picture of it in the Pennsic XXV book.

sarnac · Post by **sarnac** » Thu Mar 14, 2002 5:41 pm

Actually according to Society Marshal's Handbook the max length for Great Swords is 7 1/2 feet

losthelm · Post by **losthelm** » Thu Mar 14, 2002 9:17 pm

I thought 7.5 was glaive
althought I could be wrong
I like mine around 4 or so for for single
for group orge I prefer around 6
but thats just because I have to reach over a few heads to stab any one.

RitterHirsch · Post by **RitterHirsch** » Fri Mar 15, 2002 1:45 am

Assuming that you're talking SCA, 7-1/2' is the max. though I wouldn't make one longer than yourself. Leave a good 14-18" for the handle. The further apart your hands, the easier it is to wield. Quillions can stick out about 6" to 10" and angle or curve towards the tip. This will prevent the quillions from binding up with your arms when you try to do anything fancy. The overall length is pretty well covered by some of the other posts. It depends on how you plan to use it. There are some really cool great sword quillions out there for sale these days. Mandrake Armory has some. Being that you are German (a man after my own heart) with the right equipment, you could make a flamberge. Let me know if this is of interest and I'll let you know how I made mine.

Hope this helps

Gregor von · Post by **Gregor von** » Fri Mar 15, 2002 10:02 am

[QUOTE]Originally posted by RitterHirsch:
Mandrake Armory has some. Being that you are German (a man after my own heart) with the right equipment, you could make a flamberge. Let me know if this is of interest and I'll let you know how I made mine.

Hope this helps
__________________________________________

Hey thanks to all, and sorry I didn't point out that the Great Sword would be used for Rattan Fighting. (I'm not about to start forging steel ..........well not yet.)

Lord RitterHirsch,
I would be very interested in knowing how to build a Flamberge. If you could please e-mail me or post it here that would be fine. And I did buy my quillians from Lord Melchior Erasmi von Frankfurt
(we German's got to stick together hee hee hee), along with two sword baskets. He does great great work and is easy to deal with. But since I'll mostly be using the GreatSword for in close fighting I'm going to try a five footer and see what happens.

Uhhhmmmm........anyone have any advise on how to practice this form on a pell?

losthelm · Post by **losthelm** » Fri Mar 15, 2002 11:36 am

pratice hit and run
striking on a pass
and work the diagonals.
great sword has a lot more foot work the sword and board I find that I move more with great sword then with glaive even. keep the weapon moving switch grips and guards often in single. try not to give a way your range. and don't be afraid to fight in.

RitterHirsch · Post by **RitterHirsch** » Fri Mar 15, 2002 10:31 pm

OK, here goes

Flamberge form for rattan:

Stuff you need:
5' 4x6 (not redwood)
5' of 2-1/4" galvanized fence post pipe.
5' of 3/8" round steel bar stock (not rebar}
8' of 2" Black PVC schedule 40 drain pipe.
2 pipe caps for the 2" pipe.
Aluminum foil
Duct tape (no project is complete without duct tape...)

Take the 4x6 and draw a line down the length of the wide side. Draw lines parallel to the first on either side 3/8" from the center line (if you are using 1-1/2" thick rattan or larger, make the marks 1/2" from the center line). Depending on how many bends you want your sword to have, mark the outside lines 4" to 6" alternating sides as you go so you end up with each side having a mark every 8" to 12". At the ends, make the mark just a little further off the line to the outside so that the end and handle of the sword will be in line with the center line on the form. Cut the bar stock into 5" lengths and round the ends.
Drill 3/8" holes vertically into the 4x6 at the marked points 3" deep. Putting a piece of masking tape on the drill bit at 3" is a good way to make sure the depth is constant. Insert the bar stock into the holes and set them with a hammer. There should be at least 2" of bar sticking out of the form.
Cut the fence post into 2" lengths, one per bar. Buff off any burrs at least on one end.

Now you have your form.

Now for the rattan cooker:
Take the 8' PVC Pipe and use PVC cement to cap one end. You can make the pipe shorter to X + 2" if you know you will only make swords of length X or less.

Find a nice sunny place that's out of the wind and make a trough that is at least as long as the pipe using the aluminum foil, spare plywood/board/whatever's handy, and duct tape. This is your solar rattan cooker! (hey, if they would have had it, they would have used it).

Take the rattan and cut it to the length you want. Put it in the pipe and add water. You'll need to hold the rattan in the pipe while it's filling up or it'll pop up like a meat thermometer. Once the pipe is full, put the other cap on (do not glue this end) and duct tape it on so that it does not leak. Liquid Gasket will work for this and it doesn't solidify like glue.

Suspend the pipe in the trough about 1/2" above the tin foil. A couple of rocks at each end and in the middle should do.

Once the thing is in the trough, drill a small hole a couple inches from the non-glued end of the pipe to allow a little ventilation.

Let the thing cook for a couple days. It takes a while for the water to get into the rattan to soften it.

At about 1:00 in the afternoon, get some oven mits or leather gloves on, take out the rattan and put it onto the form. The rattan should be too hot to hold without them.

This is a 2-person operation so get a friend to help. Secure the form in a work mate or clamp it to something secure.

Starting at the tip end of the sword. Leave about 6" above the last peg for the thrusting tip. Place the first 2" pipe sleeve on the first peg. Weave the rattan back an fourth slowly through the pegs, placing a sleeve on each peg as you get to them. Have the friend press down hard on the rattan that has been already woven through the pegs so that the sword doesn't spring back out of them.

Leave the rattan in the form for a couple weeks to allow the rattan to dry out. Pop it out, tape it up and start whacking!!!

Gerry

David deKunstenaar · Post by **David deKunstenaar** » Sun Mar 17, 2002 8:00 am

Kyle: "On both greatswords, I have the maximum allowable grip (18");"

Actually this is no longer the case. You can make a longer grip, or put a ricasso on it. The more you can move your hands apart the better controle you have for certain things, much like a pole arm. If you move the quillion to far up the blade, it starts to look stupid though.
This is not about gaining an advantage in a battle (like wearing sports armor). This is about controle of the weapon, and safty, Better controle of the weapon prevents people from injuring opponents.

Arti

Cerdic · Post by **Cerdic** » Sun Mar 17, 2002 8:56 am

I'd like to see the regs on Greatswords with grip length greater than 18". In Atlantia, at least, this is still the case, and ricassos aren't allowed. Geez, mind as well go with a pole.

Cerdic

David deKunstenaar · Post by **David deKunstenaar** » Sun Mar 17, 2002 12:54 pm

One way to go is that in most kingdoms you can have an unpadded pole arm, with a long head, and there is no regulation against having quillions on a pole arm.

Some kingdoms have just dropped the handle length as silly. I asked our Earl Marshal for permission, and his responces was that I could anyway. I live in the middle.

Sir David

Cerdic · Post by **Cerdic** » Sun Mar 17, 2002 2:29 pm

Oh, and Atlantia doesn't allow unpadded poles either... [img]http://www.armourarchive.org/ubb/rolleyes.gif[/img]

C

theodrik · Post by **theodrik** » Sun Mar 17, 2002 4:44 pm

Yes, you can have a riccasso grip that exceeds the 18" grip rule, but you are now in
effect weilding a polearm and bound by those rules, in particular, the 90 degree max. arc strike. That is, if your Kingdom allows unpadded polearms. I'd check with your local knight marshal or maybe even READ YOUR KINGDOM RULES with which your supposedly familiar with. You at least swore you were when you got your authorization card.

------------------
Sir Theodrik of Skane,
West, Mists, Blackwood Company
'Lude Fortier, Lude Juste, Nemini Damnum!'

Kyle · Post by **Kyle** » Mon Mar 18, 2002 8:10 am

I'm in Aethelmarc, where I _think_ they still have a maximum grip of 18" (and no ricasso). I'll have to check, though...plus, I occasionally get kills in the first 3" of blade above the hilt. I'd hate to punch somebody instead by accident (just the bone-headed kind of thing I'd be likely to do if I lengthened my grip).

- Kyle