Sword and Shield Boring?

[Aaron]

I like Cheese

Me too, but it makes me gassy.

[DarkApprentice]

Yeah sword and shield is just boring your highness. Admit it you're a boring fat fighter in a boring fat tunic behind a boring fat shield just waiting to belly bump and throw boring wraps...

Just like me

Cause that's how we roll LOL


Edit to add: BTW the combat of the thirty looks to me like unskilled mindless repetative caveman head chopping... because that's exactly what it is. I watched the video. Not impressed. The armour is cool though. The "fighting" if you can call it that just isn't.

You forgot to add in that phelan is SLOW. SLOW SLOW SLOW. Like Slow Bro from Pokemon.

And Your Excellency, there is a certain quintessance to the Combat of the Thirty that I think you are missing out on without actually being in it. because the target areas are different, etc, it is a different show and different battle. It might look dumb, but there is a lot of real going on.

DA

[Hrolfr]

I never considered it boring, just not my favorite form to use. So I tend to neglect it and work on my pole and spear work...

This.

[Thomas MacFinn]

Why do people find sword and shield boring?

I don't. I like to watch or fight a good sword and shield fight.

I know I'm going to push a few buttons here, but for most people, SCA heavy single combat is boring to watch. It is a fact I am painfully aware of every time I attend a demo. The more repetitive the action, the more boring. At its heart, SCA combat is a participatory sport, not a spectator sport.

If we want to talk about audience interest, lets talk about the viewpoint of those people who haven't just taken off their own helmets. The problem isn't the weapon form. If an audience saw twenty spear duels in a row, they would find a shield to be an interesting change of pace. The "boring" side of SCA fighting is, in my opinion, that many SCA fighters don't even acknowledge that they have an audience.

[Duke Areus]

You forgot to add in that phelan is SLOW. SLOW SLOW SLOW. Like Slow Bro from Pokemon.


DA

All hail king kickass.

[Thomas MacFinn]

I'm not saying that we have to go as far as having a Ren Faire tourney with no blows accepted and the crowd deciding the winner, but we can be mindful that we are being watched.

A few things I did at a single demo in Calontir:
1) When getting ready to face the baron, yelled from the list field, asking the baroness if she agreed that the baron was overdue for a good drubbing. (I lost the bout.)
2) Declaring to a passerby (more than once, and in as flowery language as I could muster in the heat) that the water bearer was the true heroine of the list.
3) Between bouts, invited several hesitant people to take my sword and hit me on the helm.
4) Promised several giggling young ladies that I would fetch the tall, trim, single fighter in the nice armor that had caught their eye.

I could have done any of these things at any tourney.

[Tally]

I for one like any tourney in which the loser dies well. If death is just a nod, something is missing. A dramatic death makes things more fun for everyone.

Okay, back to the topic about sword and shields. I agree that the indestructable shield is an issue. Someone here was experimenting with shields of one thin ply of wood and when your shield got smashed, you had to take it off and fight single sword. Part of the fight was keeping your shield alive until you needed it. Part of the strategy was to bash the other guy's shield so that he'd be more defenseless.

That was fun.

[Aaron]

I'm often bested, never "dead".

[Thorstenn]

I'm with Aaron, few people died in tourneys. If they all died who would be left to fight the wars...
IMO dieing in SCA tournaments is stupid.


Thor.

[Thomas MacFinn]

I'm often bested, never "dead".

Have you ever, instead, yelled "Well done!" when bested? Did you do it loud enough to be heard by more than your opponent?

[Thorstenn]

I have.

[Broadway]

My opponent is the only one that needs hear it. The crowd is irrelevant.

I'm often bested, never "dead".

Have you ever, instead, yelled "Well done!" when bested? Did you do it loud enough to be heard by more than your opponent?

[Tally]

My opponent is the only one that needs hear it. The crowd is irrelevant.

Yawn.

[Broadway]

ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED!!!?!?!?!

If you're bored, pick up a sword and join in.

My opponent is the only one that needs hear it. The crowd is irrelevant.

Yawn.

[Tally]

You are right! Commodos should have just killed Maximus in an alley somewhere. There was no reason to have that whole coliseum of people watching.

[Broadway]

Its ok for you to totally fail to grasp what I was trying to say. I don't hold it against you.

You are right! Commodos should have just killed Maximus in an alley somewhere. There was no reason to have that whole coliseum of people watching.

[Tally]

I see!

It is only your sword fights you do in private!

You must think only a battle of wits needs an audience.

[Broadway]

Really, its ok. No need to stretch this out.

[Angusm0628]

Actually Tally, Broadway is right.. The only person you need to acknowledge being bested to, aside from yourself, is your opponent. Everyone else doesn't matter..
If you want to put on a show over being bested, knock your socks off. The fact is though, that's a choice you are making for yourself.

[Tally]

Ah! But the context of this discussion is how in a demo or tournament sword fights are often boring to watch. Were Pas d'armes done in private? A tournament is done before an audience. We are not fighting alone. Why do we salute the crown? Why do we salute the gentle whose token we bear? It seems that it is chivalrous to remember that outside of practice, our deeds of arms are not for us alone.

[Broadway]

I'm not an entertainer. If you choose to be one, so be it.

[Tally]

I would rather fight someone who is interested in entertaining not only himself, but those around him.

[Broadway]

double post.

[Angusm0628]

Ah! But the context of this discussion is how in a demo or tournament sword fights are often boring to watch. Were Pas d'armes done in private? A tournament is done before an audience. We are not fighting alone. Why do we salute the crown? Why do we salute the gentle whose token we bear? It seems that it is chivalrous to remember that outside of practice, our deeds of arms are not for us alone.

I think you're conflating "One person's viewpoint" with "the crowd's".. Folks here are discussing why they personally may find it boring to watch.
Pas d'armes are done in private...Look at the Pas that are done at Pennsic. Do they not hold them because an audience doesn't gather outside of the consorts and a few others??
We salute the crown, our inspirations and the crowd quite simply because it follows the form established..
And no our deeds are done for us alone. The fact that others enjoy/appreciate what we do is an added bonus. A welcome one but a bonus all the same.

[Broadway]

Why? Is it a different fight?

What is more fun about an opponent who isn't focusing 100% on giving you the best fight they possibly can?

I would rather fight someone who is interested in entertaining not only himself, but those around him.

[Tally]

Why? Is it a different fight?

What is more fun about an opponent who isn't focusing 100% on giving you the best fight they possibly can?

You have missed my point. I said that people should die in an entertaining manner, not that they should neglect to give their all to a fight. In my opinion, we honor our opponent when we fall instead of merely saying "Good head." It also serves to entertain those around us who may not hear the aknowledgement.

[Angusm0628]

In my opinion, we honor our opponent when we fall instead of merely saying "Good head." It also serves to entertain those around us who may not hear the aknowledgement.

Why must it be a fall?? When I'm bested I step back voice "Well done" and salute the victor.. Duke Logan will offer his sword to his opponent.. Are these inferior means to acknowledge a defeat to the act of falling ??

[Aaron]

I'm often bested, never "dead".

Have you ever, instead, yelled "Well done!" when bested? Did you you do it loud enough to be heard by more than your opponent?

Yes, and visably clanked where I got hit with my gauntlet and gave a short bow, and I do that in melee and war as well. My rig is such that another three to ten hits don't phase me while I'm bowing out and thanking them. They can still hit me while I compliment them.

When I lived in Japan I wasn't always sure English would be understood, so clanking my steel gauntlet to wherever I got hit (plate or mail usually) let everyone within visible range know I had been bested, and how.

A shout of "Well done!" or "Nice shot!" or "Well placed!" is added to the clanking.

[Broadway]

And, I think falling looks like you've lost your mind.

Why? Is it a different fight?

What is more fun about an opponent who isn't focusing 100% on giving you the best fight they possibly can?

You have missed my point. I said that people should die in an entertaining manner, not that they should neglect to give their all to a fight. In my opinion, we honor our opponent when we fall instead of merely saying "Good head." It also serves to entertain those around us who may not hear the aknowledgement.

[Aaron]

And, the crowd has always enjoyed having me fight, from the comments I receive from them. I'm a human fishing lure -- shiney, moving, disco-ball-like, complete with clanking soundtrack.

And when I stop moving, the sound stops, there is a "Good shot!" yelled, my hand comes off my pollaxe for a bow and a clank on where I got hit, and I retire the field. Those that missed what happened must be both deaf and blind. And then I will walk off the field and do my best to explain to the deaf and blind what happened, because it is often very funny IMO.

Sometimes one extra shot is thrown by my opponent, but that is rare. Most all the the time they understand the completely unoffensive (not defensive) position and understand I've granted them the win.

We do not lose. We grant our friend the win.

In my rig I can just stand there and say, "No...no....not good...keep trying..." until they tire. Then smack them hard enough to ground them.

That's legal, because it's the person who receives the blow. But that is also rude IMO. And a gentleman is never unintentionally rude.

And a gentleman does not roll around in the dirt, unless there is good money to be had doing so or a there is a woman you love involved. And that last bit is between consenting adults (married to each other in my case).

[Dietrich von Stroheim]

If we focus 100% on our contests, on bringing the absolute best and purist fight we can to our opponents, then that is all the 'entertainment' we are required to provide to the crowd.

I choose to take a knee and salute when bested--there is no rule that requires you 'die,' and it doesn't make sense given what we are recreating.

I recall one tournament where I lost and a spectator obnoxiously shouted from the crowd, 'Fall down and die!'

To which my response was to shift my sword into my shield hand and make a rude masturbatory gesture in his direction.

But then, I also don't fall down in melees if I can at all help it.

[Diglach Mac Cein]

Yup, thread is still silly.


If you clearly indicate you are bested, does it REALLY matter how you do it? Salute, fall down, let yellow tweety birds circle your helm singing "coo-coo!" - if it is clear, what's the matter?

Have fun.


.

[Tally]

Yes, have fun, and if you can do so in a manner than entertains others without compromising your principles, that's great.

For me, it is more fun to fall down when I die in a tournament, and I appreciate when others do the same. If that isn't your cup of tea,
that's fine too.

To which my response was to shift my sword into my shield hand and make a rude masturbatory gesture in his direction.

Which is pure boorishness, and a reason why some people should fight in private instead of in front of an audience. My lady and three children come with me to events, and if you want to jerk off, you should do so at home.

[Dietrich von Stroheim]

Which is pure boorishness

Probably. Two wrongs don't make a right, but responding to obnoxiousness with obnoxiousness has ever been a failing of mine.

And probably not one that is unique to me!

[Count Johnathan]

I'm not an entertainer. If you choose to be one, so be it.

Do you wear nice armor and a pretty tabard because you don't want people to watch you?

I'm not saying you have to fall down but there is a matter of pride involved in people enjoying watching your bouts don't you think?

I'm old school so I fall down in tourneys if I am struck. It's an exciting ending to a fight because I do it rather quickly and violently fall to the earth so it's unexpected and gives the folks watching a little shock value instead of just saying good. I don't have to say good when I am struck for everyone there to know I have accepted a good blow. I'ts kind of like watching a good knockout in a boxing match. It's sudden, shocking and adds some excitement to the whole thing for everyone involved. Except for me of course because losing basically sucks every time.