Battle Of Nations Team USA. Calling all Live Steel Fighters

[raito]

No wonder they seem to favor falchions.

[J.G.Elmslie]

aye, with a 10cm CoG and a minimum weight like that, I guess they're pretty clearly favouring the "hack with no discipline" school of fighting over any actual martial practice...

which is why I'm now sitting here with 3d software, calculating exactly what it's going to take to produce a blade custom cut from thicker steel with a variable distal profile to move the CoG around, maybe using an oakeshott XIV or XVIII typology, using some dirty tricks in the hilt (ebony or lignum vitae for the hilt core to adjust the CoG without throwing the harmonic balance, for example), and a few other tweaks, to try to get a blade that dents the scales at exactly 1,405 grammes, yet handles like one weighing 1,100.

If they're going to screw my workmanship over, then by god, I'm going to create a monster that will leave them feeling violated for a week, while passing every single line in thier rulebook....

[zachos]

Putting a minimum weight on a sword is ridiculous. How can making something over a certain weight make it safer?

One reason I will never enter their competition.

[Nissan Maxima]

aye, with a 10cm CoG and a minimum weight like that, I guess they're pretty clearly favouring the "hack with no discipline" school of fighting over any actual martial practice...

which is why I'm now sitting here with 3d software, calculating exactly what it's going to take to produce a blade custom cut from thicker steel with a variable distal profile to move the CoG around, maybe using an oakeshott XIV or XVIII typology, using some dirty tricks in the hilt (ebony or lignum vitae for the hilt core to adjust the CoG without throwing the harmonic balance, for example), and a few other tweaks, to try to get a blade that dents the scales at exactly 1,405 grammes, yet handles like one weighing 1,100.

If they're going to screw my workmanship over, then by god, I'm going to create a monster that will leave them feeling violated for a week, while passing every single line in thier rulebook....

Just put a fancy hilt on a crowbar.

[seabrig]

so the question is, is anyone worried about being hit by such a weapon, especialy from someone who doesnt have years of experience playing safely? after all, one of the rules is to not to intentionally hit unarmoured areas. . Just worndering. I do not yet have a sword so I'm asking if someone do an experiment for me.
would someone please get a conforming weapon and take a couple of very agressive blows to a helm. I'm just looking for a comparison. If you can video it and post to Youtube all the better. I'll then share it on the BOTN USA team facebook page.

[Nissan Maxima]

The bastard sword experiment I did was with a sword in excess of this weight.

So, no, I am not worried.

[J.G.Elmslie]

The bastard sword experiment I did was with a sword in excess of this weight.

So, no, I am not worried.

After that experiment, the swords should be....

[seabrig]

news news news. There seems to some very good translations of the rules for the 2011 event on the battleofthenations.com.ua site. Read them.



In other news, I will be at Val Day event in Kalamazoo Michigan this Saturday. I had hoped to find a nearby off site place where we could do a demo, but I cant find one. However I will be there and I will be talking to people. I will also be in armour. I'm the big guy in the gold waffenrock, Burgonet and a sheild which is white and has a red wheel with teeth on it. (sorry not everyone speaks heraldry) Find me. talk to me. I also hope to find a way to make a general announcement.

I will post what people talk about, questions and concerns after the event

Ps. Jason if you read this, please send me the account info for the face-book page.

[Natalia_UA]

Hello, guys!
Sorry for making you wait for so long for the Rules translation! The new Unified International Rules on Historical Medieval Battle have been edited up to this day and finally they are ready! The document below is at your disposal. On the basis of these rules a teaching video with the rules demonstration will be created. There will be a detailed description of all these rules and visual demonstration of the authorized and prohibited techniques. We hope, you can see the unified international rules of full contact historical medieval battles in spring.
So, please, DO form the National Team of the USA!!! Good luck!

The Unified International Rules of Full Contact Historical Medieval Battles
1. GENERAL REGULATIONS of international Historical Medieval Battles (HMB)
Historical Medieval Battles (HMB) - is a kind of sport battles with the usage of the historical recreation of protective and offensive arms of the Middle Ages, specially made and adjusted to a full-contact battle. HMB are held in full contact and can include different nominations with different tactical conditions and different with different number of participants. The concept HMB includes all kinds of power fight with the usage of historical recreation items of the Middle Ages: historical fencing, buhgurts, melee, and small group battles, mass field battles, professional fights, duels, etc.

1.1. Historical Medieval Battles are held in full contact in different nominations with different tactical conditions of the victory and different regulations depending on the event concept. Meanwhile the authorized and prohibited techniques in HMB are the same for all the nominations.
1.2. All HMB are held under a marshal group’s observation and control. The marshal group includes one knight marshal (main referee), field referees – from 2 people and linemen – from 4 people. The records of the battle results are held by the secretariat – from 1 person. In case of any disagreement the knight marshal has decision voting authority.
1.3. The battles can be held according to any regulations and tournament charts which are provided for the given nominations on this or that event where HMB are held.
1.4. To participate in HMB one accepts the fighters over 18 years old who have passed the accreditation and admission to this event and who were admitted by the technical and historical committee before the battles.
1.5. Any arms which have historical analogues, correspond to the allowed technical characteristics and are accepted by historical technical committee are valid.

The humanization of arms

1.5.1. The humanization is rounding of percussion edges of any blade and staff weapon which is executed in a plane, it is to correspond to the radius of 1 Euro coin. Such rounding is necessary for all the kinds of a weapon.
1.5.2. The edges of all the striking parts of any weapon are to be rounded as a bevel and to be not less than 2 mm wide (including any possible chips and notches).
1.5.3. The edges of shields are to be trimmed with a thick (not less than 3-4 mm) leather.
Only steel shields such as buckler or forged round shields with forge-rolled edges can be steel trimmed.
Important! Front blows with the edge of steel shields are prohibited!!!

These data concerned the admission of the weapon to the event can be toughened by the event Organizers to observe the safety requirements.
1.6. All the offensive and protective arms are to pass the admission of the technical historical committee which is specially appointed for the event. Meanwhile the fighters are to care about the protectability and impact resistance of the all protective elements.
1.7. The list of the authorized kinds of arms and the technical requirements to ones:
Weight characteristics (maximal total weight of a weapon ready-fitted and in a ready state is indicated, accepted error is +300 g).

Blade weapon
1.7.1.Single-handled swords, sabers, broadswords – maximal weight is 1600 g
1.7.2. Falchions – 1800 g
1.7.3. Hand and a half sword (total length is up to 1400 mm), swords, sabers, broadswords – maximal weight is 2500 g
1.7.4. Two-handled swords XIV-XV cent. Maximal weight is 3500 g

Staff weapon
1.7.5. Single-handled: axes – maximal weight 1300 g; maces and six-flanged mace – maximal weight is 1000 g.
Important! For axes: the length of a crashing part of an axe blade is to be not less than 7 cm!!!
Important! For maces: all the maces are to be ONLY on a wood handle and with no sharp edges!!!
1.7.6. Hand and a half: axes, poleaxes and other similar weapons (with a total weight of not less than 1 m) – maximal weight is 2300 g
1.7.7. Two-handled: halberds and similar kinds of a weapon (with a total length more than 1400 mm) – maximal weight is 3000 g.
Heavier weapons or just thrust weapons are not admitted to use in historical medieval battles.

1.8. One authorizes any armor which has historical analogues of the period XIII – XVI cent. It is to be made out of authentic materials, to have the appropriate thickness of a protective material as well as to have good aesthetic appearance. All the items of protective arms are to correspond to the technical requirements.
Technical requirements to protective arms:
1.8.1. The fighter’s head is to be protected with a metal helmet. The steel of the helmet is to be not less than 2 mm thick
1.8.2. The fighter’s helmet is to be equipped either with a tight padding or with a well quilted padded cap not less than 3 cm thick or a leather pendant with a quilted padded cap from 1 cm thick.
1.8.3. The fighter’s body is to be covered with lamellar armor or riveted chainmail
1.8.4. Apart from armor the fighter’s body is to be equipped with an underarmor protection (a quilted jacket, a wool gown, a padded shirt, etc.) which covers the entire torso or the armor is to have a quilted undercoat.
1.8.5. The fighter’s neck is to be mandatory covered with a steel armor element. For chainmail type of protection one authorizes only riveted chainmail web with additional hidden steel protection under it. The neck from behind is to mandatory have additional underarmor protection (a quilted or padded pelerine of a neck guard, a special collar or a cushion padding to a steel neck protection) not less than 3 cm thick.
1.8.6. The fighter’s hands are to be protected with gloves or mittens which have historical analogues. A hand protection is to mandatory have steel lamellar or chainmail percussive surface. Beside steel one authorizes the usage of any authentic materials.
1.8.7. The participation in HMB only in a quilted armor is authorized only when the fighter has a special permission from the event organizers.
1.8.8. The entire spine is to be covered with a steel protection with a mandatory quilted or padded underarmor not less than 3 cm thick.
1.8.9. A shin is to be covered with a steel protection from the front and the sides; from behind it is to be protected with steel or at least quilted or padded pants or protective insets.
1.8.10. The armor is to provide a head, a neck, a spine and joints qualitatively in any fighter’s position.
1.8.11. Any fighter’s limb joints are to be protected with an armor element.
1.8.12.A fighter’s groin is to be protected with armor elements or special hidden groin protection.
1.8.13. In case if a fighter’s protective complex in terms of the correspondence to historical analogues misses historically based elements of the given zones. These zones are to be safely covered with a hidden protection which is not registered visually and made of authentic materials.

2. THE BATTLE HOLDING PRINCIPLES
2.1. HMB are held in different regulations depending on the nominations of a battle and the event peculiarities.
2.2. The conditions of the victory also can be changed depending on the nomination of a battle and an event.
2.3. The main indicator of the victory in HMB is the opponent’s fall on the list surface. The fall is considered to be the following:
2.3.1. when one touches the surface of a list with his torso, bottom or with three support points at the same time.
2.3.2. when one keeps attacking while the battle with no weapon in his hands
2.3.3. when one fix, keeps or block the rival with no weapon in his hands in any way.
2.3.4. when one comes out or falls out the list
2.3.5. when one leans over the list fence for more than 45 °, only in case when it is fixed by the marshal (who puts the flag on top).
2.3.6. when one breaks or looses his head- or neck protection . Also when one breaks or looses in a battle an essential part of his armor, which absence will result in an injury. In this case the fighter is to leave the battle, to squat down or knee (ïðèñåñòü íà îäíî êîëåíî), to cover an uncovered part with armor and to take a safe position on the list out of the battle till the end of a bout.
2.3.7. when one falls together with the opponent if at least one hand, knee or other part of the body leans on the surface of the list.
Important! When the fighter who has fallen together with the opponent and is on top, has leaned with the third supporting point just on the opponent who lies under him and the fighter doesn’t touch the list surface with the other supporting point, he is not considered to be a fallen one.
2.4. In case if the fighter looses his weapon he has right:
2.4.1. to use spare weapon
2.4.2. to take spare weapon from the reserve fighter of his team which is located in a special place near the fence of the list
2.4.3. to cease fighting having squatted down and taken the position out of the battle.

3. AUTHORIZED TECHNIQUES IN HMB
Authorized techniques and strikes:
3.1. one authorizes any punches, strikes with a weapon fighting part or a shield on the opponent’s kill zone. The kill zone excludes an open face, a groin, feet, a back part of a neck, popliteal space.
3.2. one authorizes blocking theopponent’s attacking arm and striking the opponent who has lost the balance till he falls on the ground.
3.3. pushing or shoving with a head, a shoulder and a body
3.4. hooking the opponent’s shield, hands or weapon with a shield, single-handled axe or single-handled weapon pommel
3.5. using a free hand to attack: strikes, pressure, holdback on a forearm or a hand. The fighter can strike with a free hand, but only in case he holds weapon in another hand.
3.6. blocking and repulsion the opponent with a hand in case when the distance is shortened too much or in case of a clinch.
3.7. pressure towards the opponent’s hand, shield or weapon with a free hand
3.8. attacking the opponent who has lost his weapon
3.9. any kicks except direct or side kicks, kicks resulting in fracture - twisting, kicks with a foot or any other part of the leg from the front of a knee joint or inner side part of a knee joint.
3.10. kicks under a knee from behind and from the outer side part of a knee joint, except the kicks when the fighter jumps or is at a running start and at the moment of the kick both his feet lift off.
3.11. any fighting techniques, back heels, throws, except painful holds, suffocating techniques, mills, fighting on hands and knees.
3.12. holds with a pole of two-handled pole arm from the front and from behind, but with no pressure on a neck from behind and with no suffocation
3.13. overlapping of a shield, blocking of the opponent’s hands with a shield, putting a shield’s edge under an armed hand.

4. PROHIBITED TECHNIQUES
4.1. one prohibits any strikes in non-kill zone
Important! One strongly prohibits any strikes on a groin, back side of a neck, open face, feet.
4.2. one prohibits strikes or any other actions with a weapon or a shield under the knee.
4.3. any strikes on the back part of the neck
4.3. any vertical strikes along the spine
4.4. thrusting strikes with a weapon
4.5. twisting against natural direction of a limb flexion and any painful holds
4.6. pressure or hooking the edge of a helmet with a hand
4.7. hooking a helmet or a chainmail aventail
4.8. any clinches, hold-downs, suffocating techniques with a weapon or hands over the neck from the front or from behind.
4.9. deliberate putting off or a try to put off any opponent’s protection elements: holds of the edge of a helm with a hand together with active actions directed to putting it off
4.10. any strikes in the parts of the body which are not covered with
4.11. any strikes with feet of a shield from the front of a knee joint or inner side part of a knee joint, direct or side strikes, strikes which can result in fracture of a knee joint.
4.12. any strikes above the back: in the neck or the head of the opponent who is bending on 50° or more.
4.13. it’s strictly prohibited to injure the opponent deliberately
4.14. any thoughtless or uncontrolled strikes and motions of a weapon
4.15. any attacking actions towards the fighter who has risen up at least one hand with an open palm.
Important! A hand with an open palm risen up is a sign of voluntary leaving the battle. Having risen a hand with an open palm up the fighter automatically takes the position out of the battle.
4.16. it’s prohibited to deal the final blow to the enemy who is lying.
4.17. it’s prohibited to be in a clinch for more than 10 seconds. In this case field referee can put the fighters in a clinch apart giving a command “Stop clinch!â€