Nasty, brutish and not that short...Battle of Towton

For those of us who wish to talk about the many styles and facets of recreating Medieval armed combat.
Post Reply
User avatar
AEiric Orvender
Archive Member
Posts: 2849
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 3:36 pm
Location: Vine Grove Ky.

Nasty, brutish and not that short...Battle of Towton

Post by AEiric Orvender »

Very cool stuff form the dig at the site of the Battle of Towton
Link

[quote]Nasty, brutish and not that short
Medieval warfare was just as terrifying as you might imagine


THE soldier now known as Towton 25 had survived battle before. A healed skull fracture points to previous engagements. He was old enough—somewhere between 36 and 45 when he died—to have gained plenty of experience of fighting. But on March 29th 1461, his luck ran out.

Towton 25 suffered eight wounds to his head that day. The precise order can be worked out from the direction of fractures on his skull: when bone breaks, the cracks veer towards existing areas of weakness. The first five blows were delivered by a bladed weapon to the left-hand side of his head, presumably by a right-handed opponent standing in front of him. None is likely to have been lethal.

Image

The next one almost certainly was. From behind him someone swung a blade towards his skull, carving a down-to-up trajectory through the air. The blow opened a huge horizontal gash into the back of his head—picture a slit you could post an envelope through. Fractures raced down to the base of his skull and around the sides of his head. Fragments of bone were forced in to Towton 25’s brain, felling him.

His enemies were not done yet. Another small blow to the right and back of the head may have been enough to turn him over onto his back. Finally another blade arced towards him. This one bisected his face, opening a crevice that ran from his left eye to his right jaw (see picture). It cut deep: the edge of the blade reached to the back of his throat.


Thorny tales

Towton is a nondescript village in northern England, between the cities of York and Leeds. Many Britons have never heard of it: school history tends to skip the 400-or-so years between 1066 and the start of the Tudor era. Visitors have to look hard to spot the small roadside cross that marks the site of perhaps the bloodiest battle ever fought in England. Yet the clash was a turning point in the Wars of the Roses. And, almost 550 years later, the site is changing our understanding of medieval battle.

In Shakespeare’s cycle of eight plays, the story of the Wars of the Roses is told as an epic drama. In reality it was a messy series of civil wars—an on-again, off-again conflict pitting supporters of the ruling Lancastrian monarchy against backers of the house of York. According to Helen Castor, a historian at Sidney Sussex College, Cambridge, the wars arose from the slow breakdown of English government under Henry VI, a man who was prone to bouts of mental illness and “curiously incapableâ€
Squire to Sir Diglach mac Cein

"Eliminating Generi-celts from the Midrealm, one at a time. By Education or Force." -Sir Diglach mac Cein

"I'm not trying to be a hero! I'm fighting the dragon!" -Sir William the Knight
User avatar
Baron Eirik
Archive Member
Posts: 7291
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2002 1:01 am
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Contact:

Post by Baron Eirik »

Master Eirik, MSCA
Munitions Grade Arms, Rattan & Thrusting Tips
Now on Facebook
User avatar
dukelogan
Archive Member
Posts: 5581
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2002 1:01 am
Location: leading the downward spiral
Contact:

Post by dukelogan »

and some folks will still think punching a guy with an axe, wrist flicky shots, or lightly jabbing a sword to the face would be fight enders. :roll:

i dont care who are, mr 25 was one tough dude!

regards
logan
Ebonwoulfe Armory is fully stocked with spears again! For now the only way to order them is to send an email to ebonwoulfearmory@gmail.com with the quantity and your shipping address. We will send a PayPal invoice in response including your shipping cost.
User avatar
Theron
Archive Member
Posts: 184
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 4:43 pm
Location: Barony of the Flame, Midrealm

Post by Theron »

EXCESSIVE! :lol:
Last edited by Theron on Wed Dec 22, 2010 10:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
James B.
Archive Member
Posts: 31596
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2002 2:01 am
Location: Ashburn VA
Contact:

Post by James B. »

dukelogan wrote:and some folks will still think punching a guy with an axe, wrist flicky shots, or lightly jabbing a sword to the face would be fight enders. :roll:

i dont care who are, mr 25 was one tough dude!

regards
logan


Duke Logan

If you read the whole thing carefully the writers feel the guy was attacked by many people at one time while retreating, he may have taken many shots while falling or on the ground. It is not likely he took those blows over a long period of time and kept fighting.


Your argument is better made in Blood Red Roses where it is clear one of the skulls was a man who took an axe to the face years before dieing at this battle.
James B.
In the SCA: Master James de Biblesworth
Archer in La Belle Compagnie
Historic Life
User avatar
AEiric Orvender
Archive Member
Posts: 2849
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 3:36 pm
Location: Vine Grove Ky.

Post by AEiric Orvender »

The one reason I watch "Deadliest Warrior": the chance to see what 'our' weapons could do to a human... or at least an analog. :wink:
Squire to Sir Diglach mac Cein

"Eliminating Generi-celts from the Midrealm, one at a time. By Education or Force." -Sir Diglach mac Cein

"I'm not trying to be a hero! I'm fighting the dragon!" -Sir William the Knight
User avatar
dukelogan
Archive Member
Posts: 5581
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2002 1:01 am
Location: leading the downward spiral
Contact:

Post by dukelogan »

i was looking at: " The first five blows were delivered by a bladed weapon to the left-hand side of his head, presumably by a right-handed opponent standing in front of him. None is likely to have been lethal."

blows hard enough to damage the skull, much harder than any punch weighted down with an axe head. not to mention punching with your hand in a verticle position transfers way less force than a horizontal punch. i just think its a valid technique (although ive never had an attempt land) and violates the rule stating a weapon must be used in accordance with its design.

either way, poor guy got a beat down.

regards
logan



James B. wrote:
dukelogan wrote:and some folks will still think punching a guy with an axe, wrist flicky shots, or lightly jabbing a sword to the face would be fight enders. :roll:

i dont care who are, mr 25 was one tough dude!

regards
logan


Duke Logan

If you read the whole thing carefully the writers feel the guy was attacked by many people at one time while retreating, he may have taken many shots while falling or on the ground. It is not likely he took those blows over a long period of time and kept fighting.


Your argument is better made in Blood Red Roses where it is clear one of the skulls was a man who took an axe to the face years before dieing at this battle.
Ebonwoulfe Armory is fully stocked with spears again! For now the only way to order them is to send an email to ebonwoulfearmory@gmail.com with the quantity and your shipping address. We will send a PayPal invoice in response including your shipping cost.
User avatar
BdeB
Line-Stepper
Posts: 6038
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2003 1:01 am
Location: Richmond, VA USA
Contact:

Post by BdeB »

Combat Archery, Meridies, Blankenship, Magic Cat Ass!!

There, MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!
:twisted:
"I think you're wrong in your understanding of fighting.... though what you have written is very manly, it does not convey a real sense of clue...." - Sir Christian The German
Gunnstein
New Member
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu May 20, 2010 9:48 pm
Location: Lochac (Queensland, Australia)

Post by Gunnstein »

Æiric ørvender wrote:The one reason I watch "Deadliest Warrior": the chance to see what 'our' weapons could do to a human... or at least an analog. :wink:


Have you seen the series 'Perfect Weapon' on National Geographic? It does similar tests but without the pair-up aspect, and in my opinion is more accurate.
Cattle die, Kinsmen die,
A man himself Must likewise die;
But the fair fame never dies For him who has earned it well.
User avatar
AEiric Orvender
Archive Member
Posts: 2849
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 3:36 pm
Location: Vine Grove Ky.

Post by AEiric Orvender »

Gunnstein wrote:
Æiric ørvender wrote:The one reason I watch "Deadliest Warrior": the chance to see what 'our' weapons could do to a human... or at least an analog. :wink:


Have you seen the series 'Perfect Weapon' on National Geographic? It does similar tests but without the pair-up aspect, and in my opinion is more accurate.


Ohh I'll have to watch for that!!!! Thanks!
Squire to Sir Diglach mac Cein

"Eliminating Generi-celts from the Midrealm, one at a time. By Education or Force." -Sir Diglach mac Cein

"I'm not trying to be a hero! I'm fighting the dragon!" -Sir William the Knight
User avatar
dukelogan
Archive Member
Posts: 5581
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2002 1:01 am
Location: leading the downward spiral
Contact:

Post by dukelogan »

for those demonoid members there is one episode (slings and arrows) available. says its from the history channel.

regards
logan

Æiric ørvender wrote:
Gunnstein wrote:
Æiric ørvender wrote:The one reason I watch "Deadliest Warrior": the chance to see what 'our' weapons could do to a human... or at least an analog. :wink:


Have you seen the series 'Perfect Weapon' on National Geographic? It does similar tests but without the pair-up aspect, and in my opinion is more accurate.


Ohh I'll have to watch for that!!!! Thanks!
Ebonwoulfe Armory is fully stocked with spears again! For now the only way to order them is to send an email to ebonwoulfearmory@gmail.com with the quantity and your shipping address. We will send a PayPal invoice in response including your shipping cost.
Russ Mitchell
Archive Member
Posts: 11800
Joined: Wed Sep 13, 2000 1:01 am
Location: HQ, Garden Gnome Liberation Front
Contact:

Post by Russ Mitchell »

The author is a very, very nice man.

It's just as likely they were disarmed, herded together in a bunch, and then chopped and whacked on and defaced and tormented until they were all killed. Civil wars tend to bring out that kind of behavior...
No one cares how much you know, until they know how much you care.
Post Reply