Round topped kite

FrauHirsch · Post by **FrauHirsch** » Tue Jun 17, 2003 10:50 am

One of my husband's squires has decided to use a round topped Norman-style kite. Its not very large, but we are at somewhat of a loss as to guide him in use for tourney fighting. I've used a larger one for years in war fighting, but its just not the same.

People around here just don't use them, so I don't really have anyone to ask. I noticed in some of the pictures of other areas, they seem to be used fairly heavily.

I do a lot of the shield training, but I really know more about heater and round. I share in the Squires training.

He's a lefty. Its forearm strapped, not a center grip. He keeps holding it too close to his body, but I just don't "know" the nuances of exact placement for maximum protection with minimum movement like I do with a heater.

Any technique advice? Strapping/balancing/size advice? We don't want to make it too large for tourney fighting.

Juliana

Vladimir · Post by **Vladimir** » Tue Jun 17, 2003 10:52 am

Never used one, but I have been told that if you are strapping one then strap it (and fight it) with your arm vertical instead of at an angle. I know a guy who claimed to have much more success this way.

Crystoll · Post by **Crystoll** » Tue Jun 17, 2003 11:07 am

FrauHirsch,

Are you talking about a kite like this?:

[img]http://www.thelostfrayman.net/pictures/allpics/img_1725_std.jpg[/img]

That's me on the left, ie the lefty..

Crystoll

[This message has been edited by Crystoll (edited 06-17-2003).]

CountAlaric · Post by **CountAlaric** » Tue Jun 17, 2003 12:24 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by FrauHirsch:
One of my husband's squires has decided to use a round topped Norman-style kite. Its not very large, but we are at somewhat of a loss as to guide him in use for tourney fighting. I've used a larger one for years in war fighting, but its just not the same.

People around here just don't use them, so I don't really have anyone to ask. I noticed in some of the pictures of other areas, they seem to be used fairly heavily.

I do a lot of the shield training, but I really know more about heater and round. I share in the Squires training.

He's a lefty. Its forearm strapped, not a center grip. He keeps holding it too close to his body, but I just don't "know" the nuances of exact placement for maximum protection with minimum movement like I do with a heater.

Any technique advice? Strapping/balancing/size advice? We don't want to make it too large for tourney fighting.

Juliana<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi Juliana,

I'll be at Gyldenholt Anniversary, and many other events this summer

My kite shield isn't so different from the one you are describing, and I seem to use it pretty well

I would be willing to spend some time with your student going over some of the esoteric nuances of kite shield design and usage.

Alaric

Alcyoneus · Post by **Alcyoneus** » Tue Jun 17, 2003 1:51 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Vladimir:
Never used one, but I have been told that if you are strapping one then strap it (and fight it) with your arm vertical instead of at an angle. I know a guy who claimed to have much more success this way.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would recommend not quite vertical, say 1 o'clock.

Dmitriy · Post by **Dmitriy** » Tue Jun 17, 2003 2:01 pm

Juliana -- Duke Hauoc fights with one of those
http://www.keradwc.com/20000701_gyldann/_2000_35_17a.html

He comes down to Caid from time to time

-Dmitriy

Crystoll · Post by **Crystoll** » Tue Jun 17, 2003 2:10 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Alcyoneus:
I would recommend not quite vertical, say 1 o'clock.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I use that setup.. Cept as the guy is a lefty (like me), it's 11 o'clock

Crystoll

Raibeart Lok De la Haye · Tue Jun 17, 2003 3:04 pm

I"ve used round top kite almost exclusively for 12 years and the one o'clock verticle and center grip work great. Against a tall guy, (I'm 5' 8" in boots) hold the shield a little closer and shrug block. Against a guy closer to your own height use the center grip. Works for me anyway. I almost never take a leg shot, on either leg, but watch your left upper back it's an easy rap target.

Kilkenny · Post by **Kilkenny** » Tue Jun 17, 2003 8:41 pm

It's very hard to describe shield usage in text. I started with a kite lo these many years ago, and moved away for two reasons.
One, my developing offense found the shield in the way too often and Two, the Chivalry frowned on such a large shield in those days in the East.

That said, I used the straight up grip, and essentially thought of my shield as a round.. it just happened to have this big tail that got in people's way. I would use it in tight against the shoulder, or extend my arm, reaching straight out at times, working to use the top edge to make active blocks.

Gavin

DanNV · Post by **DanNV** » Tue Jun 17, 2003 9:00 pm

I use a kite. 20" by 40" overall. (A bit less surface area than a smaller heater or 24" round.) Here's an older pic of me using it. http://web0.greatbasin.net/~fenwick/images/images/dan_fight_2.jpg . I agree with the 11 o'clock or so strapping.

The easiest way to explain blocking with it is to think of blocking anything that isn't coming in over the top like blocking with your forearm. Higher shots require you to lift the shield. Keep the top in farely close and angle the bottom out a bit to provide better leg protection. It takes some getting used to and is probably best for the skinny fighters out there.

Duke Hauoc's kite is much smaller, but he's basically inhuman, so it works remarkably well for him.

Dan

Morgan · Post by **Morgan** » Wed Jun 18, 2003 6:20 am

I use a long kite, 22 at the widest, 36 at the longest, and it's quasi round/quasi peaked at the top.

I'm in the yellow and blue. Probably too large for what you're talking about?

http://home.armourarchive.org/members/morgan/Morgan6.jpg

FrauHirsch · Post by **FrauHirsch** » Wed Jun 18, 2003 10:25 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Morgan:
 Probably too large for what you're talking about?

http://home.armourarchive.org/members/morgan/Morgan6.jpg

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats a bit bigger than the shield he's using.

FrauHirsch · Post by **FrauHirsch** » Wed Jun 18, 2003 10:33 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by CountAlaric:
 Hi Juliana,

I'll be at Gyldenholt Anniversary, and many other events this summer

My kite shield isn't so different from the one you are describing, and I seem to use it pretty well

I would be willing to spend some time with your student going over some of the esoteric nuances of kite shield design and usage.

Alaric

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thank you Your Majesty,

I'm not sure he'll be at Gyldenholt. But if he is planning to go, I'll tell him to look you up. I'm sure he'll be able to find you :-)

He's a pretty new fighter, so I would like either myself, Sir Arion or Lord Edward (one of your Queen's guardsman and another Squire of Arion's) to listen in as extra ears.

Sometimes when folks are new they don't filter info quite the same. Like if you said "when someone does A or B, then respond with C, but if someone does D or E, the best response is F, but you can also try C" and the person comes back with "The King told me always to respond with C"...

Arion and I won't be able to make it due to a family reunion that day. We normally go to Gyldenholt, but we just can't get out of this one. But I'm sure we'll see you at other events. I'd like to get to CP Prize, Lyondemere and others.

I think your shield is very similar to what he is using, though his is very narrow and long, like a mini-norman. I think it looks like a kid's war shield myself.

Thanks again,

Juliana

FrauHirsch · Post by **FrauHirsch** » Wed Jun 18, 2003 10:35 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Crystoll:
FrauHirsch,

Are you talking about a kite like this?:
[This message has been edited by Crystoll (edited 06-17-2003).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Same shape but much much smaller. It would be frowned upon in Caid to use that large of a shield in a tournment. Inter-kingdom anthropology...

-J

FrauHirsch · Post by **FrauHirsch** » Wed Jun 18, 2003 10:38 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Dmitriy:
Juliana -- Duke Hauoc fights with one of those
He comes down to Caid from time to time

-Dmitriy<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'll keep an eye out. That is the right shape and similar proportion (though I'm sure Duke Hauoc's is larger, since he is so tall. I've only seen him at wars and the Kingdom of the West 12th night, where we chatted a bit. Since he has done Germans at Northern Faire, we know a lot of the same folks.

thanks,
J

Morgan · Post by **Morgan** » Wed Jun 18, 2003 10:48 am

I SERIOUSLY woulnd't bet on that. I've seen Hauoc's shield...it's TINY.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by FrauHirsch:
 I'll keep an eye out. That is the right shape and similar proportion (though I'm sure Duke Hauoc's is larger, since he is so tall. I've only seen him at wars and the Kingdom of the West 12th night, where we chatted a bit. Since he has done Germans at Northern Faire, we know a lot of the same folks.

thanks,
J<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

DanNV · Post by **DanNV** » Wed Jun 18, 2003 10:40 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Morgan:
I SERIOUSLY woulnd't bet on that. I've seen Hauoc's shield...it's TINY.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And covers way more of him than anyone would ever think possible...

Angus Bjornssen · Post by **Angus Bjornssen** » Wed Jun 18, 2003 11:30 pm

I'm a new fighter but the only loaner shield that was available to use for quite a while was a "teardrop" shield. A kite type but with roughly semi-circular top. If that is what you are referring to I can tell you how I use it effectively.

I'm right handed and the shield has a grip and strap arrangement at about the 1 o'clock position as I look at my arm. I've discovered that I use it against waist and higher shots similar to a round shield; meaning I actively move it to meet my opponents weapon. I should also mention that the shield I have been using, when held on guard, is from about an inch above my shoulder to about an inch or two above my knee and is about 2 feet wide at the top and 6 inches at the bottom. Anyway, for shots below the waist I simply tilt my forarm; to the right to block a left leg shot and to the left to block a right leg shot. I've found that I only have to move my hand about 3 inches (pivot at the elbow) to get about 5-6 inches of movement at the bottom. If I pivot at the hand I get much more movement at the bottom. Can't tell you when I do which yet, I'm still too mentally slow to recognize what I do when I do it. I just do it.

Again, I've only been fighting once a week for about 7 months so I can only give you my perceptions, and they may be off, but it seems that a combination of low heater and mid-high round defense might be the way to go. Of course a heater does not necessarily extend that far down but I have seen many (not most) leg blocks done much the same way I do with the teardrop/round kite.

I hope this helps.

------------------
Angus of the White Mountain Shire

Dmitriy · Post by **Dmitriy** » Thu Jun 19, 2003 1:36 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by FrauHirsch:
 though I'm sure Duke Hauoc's is larger, since he is so tall.
thanks,
J<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nope.. if anything, it's smaller. You forget that Hauoc is thin enough that he can hide behind a pavillion pole if he is so inclined

Have you seen his so-called "heater" that we prefer to call his <a href=http://68.49.73.99/anglesey/p31/31259.htm>"dorrito chip"</a>?

Another guy you can hit up if you are ever up in the West again (say hi next time, yeah?) is Leohtulf of the Silver Hills, a really good unbelted fighter. I think his shield is the same size as Hauoc's. http://history.westkingdom.org/Year37/Photos/MSC05.htm

FrauHirsch · Post by **FrauHirsch** » Thu Jun 19, 2003 1:26 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Dmitriy:
Nope.. if anything, it's smaller. You forget that Hauoc is thin enough that he can hide behind a pavillion pole if he is so inclined ]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Squire's shield is also really small. It looks like a war shield for a 9 yr old. :-)

I've met Hauoc!! How tall is he?!!

-J

Dmitriy · Post by **Dmitriy** » Thu Jun 19, 2003 1:36 pm

6'5" or 6'6"

Greenshield · Post by **Greenshield** » Thu Jun 26, 2003 10:04 am

If you realy want to have some fun, try a curved kite. Been using one for some time now and love them.

Green Shield

OurDecay · Post by **OurDecay** » Sun Jun 29, 2003 8:39 pm

And it's hard to get around, Greenshield. Lord knows Mike and Kelvin from my group tried down in K.C.! Sheesh.

cristofre fortescu · Post by **cristofre fortescu** » Sun Jun 29, 2003 11:51 pm

These are older pictures, but show a couple of different sizes:

http://www.housedragonor.org/images/photos/camric01.jpg

http://www.housedragonor.org/images/photos/lex-rosetourney01.jpg

I just made a new one yesterday and will finish it tomorrow. It is 23" X 45", with about a 3" deep curve, which is typical historically. Read the acticle below:

http://www.regia.org/shields.htm

Hope it helps

Tom Knighton · Post by **Tom Knighton** » Mon Jun 30, 2003 6:00 pm

I've got a question that sorta pertains to this. I'm making a round topped kite and want to curve it. I have just one problem, I don't know how to curve it. It's just a tiny problem. Can anyone help?

Thanks,

Bran

Morgan · Post by **Morgan** » Mon Jun 30, 2003 6:53 pm

what are you trying to make it out of? Wood? Aluminium?

Tom Knighton · Post by **Tom Knighton** » Tue Jul 01, 2003 7:43 am

Damn. I thought I said and apparently I didn't. What's the matter with you people? can't you read minds???

I'm using wood actually.

Bran

Egfroth · Post by **Egfroth** » Tue Jul 01, 2003 6:10 pm

There are companies that produce curved plywood for furniture, some of it eminently suitable for kite shields. If you look around you ought to be able to find one. Failing that, use the old 44-gallon drum trick to glue three layers of 1/8" ply togther in a curve, or make up a jig to do the same thing.

------------------
Egfroth

"Pig, sit still in the strainer.
Pig, sit still in the strainer!
I must have my pig tea!"

Egfroth

see my webpage at www.geocities.com/egfrothos

cristofre fortescu · Post by **cristofre fortescu** » Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:30 am

I use that import plywood, louon or however it is spelled. It is real light. Two .25 pieces. I draw the pattern, glue the two pieces together, while glue is still wet moisten the front and back of wood, then use two or three cargo straps (one on top, middle and bottom) and ratchet it to desired curve plus a little more. Set up for three days and you are done and ready to cut out the shape of the shield. It will lose just a little curve that is why you want to put just a little more curve than you want while tightening the straps.

You can make a press, but this is the easiest way I have found and you can get the straps at walmart for about 8-10 dollars.

Cristofre

Greenshield · Post by **Greenshield** » Thu Jul 03, 2003 8:33 am

Bran,

I make a habit out of making those curved kites. I teach a clas on it from time to time and I will e-mail you directions on how to DIY. You should have it by this afternoon(central standard time).

Green Shield

Greenshield · Post by **Greenshield** » Thu Jul 03, 2003 8:40 am

Cristofre and anyone else planning on making a curved shield:

Do Not Use Luana plywood! While yes, it does say it is a 'hardwood' it is the softest hardwood I have ever worked with! I made a kite out of the stuff using many layers with the grain alternating in direction. Thought it would add strenght and normally it would. The problem was the stuff is so soft it divits deeply at the slightes bump from a basket hilt or armour.

I was so proud of my shinny new kite at fighter practice until the 1st new guy who was practicing half speed stepped in too close and bumped it with his basket. The divit went almost 2 layer deep! I was P.O.ed!

A normal curved kite will last me 6months to a year of heavy combat. This one lasted a month and a half.

Then I found out that Luana wood is the same cheap crap they use for even cheaper hollow core door skins. And we all know how easily holes apear in those things!

Camric

FrauHirsch · Post by **FrauHirsch** » Thu Jul 03, 2003 11:17 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by greenshield:
Cristofre and anyone else planning on making a curved shield:

Do Not Use Luana plywood!

Camric<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

We use 1/4" birch doorskins.

Juliana

Dmitriy · Post by **Dmitriy** » Thu Jul 03, 2003 12:02 pm

Sir Camric, can you send a copy my way as well?
dvryaboy AT lbl.gov

Greenshield · Post by **Greenshield** » Thu Jul 03, 2003 12:29 pm

It's on the way.

Tom Knighton · Post by **Tom Knighton** » Thu Jul 03, 2003 7:15 pm

Thanks for the info, It's really good stuff!

Now I can't wait to start to work on my new shield!!

Bran
Almost back on the field!