SCA minimums are mean to prevent...

[Oscad]

And the outcome of said suit was.....?

And which Kingdoms lawyer handled the case?

You can make up any nonsense to bring a lawsuit against any party. It doesn't prevent a judge from laughing in your face and tossing your idiotic case into the circular file.

As you said, Kingdoms don't have lawyers. THe BOD (via SCA, Inc) does have lawyers.

Simply put, Society Minimums are what the SCA, Inc has deemed "reasonably safe" for the purposes of combat, vis-a-vis the SCA waiver.

If someone requires a higher coverage than that, it's proof, basically, that they are intentionally being more damaging than "sca minimum" will protect from.

Like I said, believe it or don't, that's your choice. Get your own fucking legal secretary and do some digging.

not my job to make you happy.

Not all Kingdoms are Soc. Mins. Atenveldt has extra rules. heck Pennsic has extra rules over Soc mins.
You are a Liar.

Balin

While I am unable to determine is Maeryk is a 'Liar', it isn't so in this case. Since he never said "all Kingdoms", he said "so many" Kingdoms. So unless you have a much longer list than just Aten.....

[Kilkenny]

And the outcome of said suit was.....?

And which Kingdoms lawyer handled the case?

You can make up any nonsense to bring a lawsuit against any party. It doesn't prevent a judge from laughing in your face and tossing your idiotic case into the circular file.

As you said, Kingdoms don't have lawyers. THe BOD (via SCA, Inc) does have lawyers.

Simply put, Society Minimums are what the SCA, Inc has deemed "reasonably safe" for the purposes of combat, vis-a-vis the SCA waiver.

If someone requires a higher coverage than that, it's proof, basically, that they are intentionally being more damaging than "sca minimum" will protect from.

Like I said, believe it or don't, that's your choice. Get your own fucking legal secretary and do some digging.

not my job to make you happy.

Not all Kingdoms are Soc. Mins. Atenveldt has extra rules. heck Pennsic has extra rules over Soc mins.
You are a Liar.

Balin

Nothing Maeryk said remotely approached being a lie. I think you don't understand what he wrote, which is an entirely different thing.

[DukeAvery]

I direct your attention to the word 'minimum'. SCA minimum armor is for fools and experts.

Regards

Avery

[Baron Eirik]

... SCA minimum armor is for fools and experts.

Please note, the two are not mutually exclusive

(sez a guy who wears just ove mins)

[Balin50]

And the outcome of said suit was.....?

And which Kingdoms lawyer handled the case?

You can make up any nonsense to bring a lawsuit against any party. It doesn't prevent a judge from laughing in your face and tossing your idiotic case into the circular file.

As you said, Kingdoms don't have lawyers. THe BOD (via SCA, Inc) does have lawyers.

Simply put, Society Minimums are what the SCA, Inc has deemed "reasonably safe" for the purposes of combat, vis-a-vis the SCA waiver.

If someone requires a higher coverage than that, it's proof, basically, that they are intentionally being more damaging than "sca minimum" will protect from.

Like I said, believe it or don't, that's your choice. Get your own fucking legal secretary and do some digging.

not my job to make you happy.

Not all Kingdoms are Soc. Mins. Atenveldt has extra rules. heck Pennsic has extra rules over Soc mins.
You are a Liar.

Balin

While I am unable to determine is Maeryk is a 'Liar', it isn't so in this case. Since he never said "all Kingdoms", he said "so many" Kingdoms. So unless you have a much longer list than just Aten.....

Sorry had to dig back a couple of pages.

M said "Yeah, whatever dude. Talk to the BOD about why kingoms were STRONGLY urged to go to society mins.. and why so many who were adamantly against doing so, then did. "

This sounds like he is talking about all kingdoms.

Balin

[Kilkenny]

And the outcome of said suit was.....?

And which Kingdoms lawyer handled the case?

You can make up any nonsense to bring a lawsuit against any party. It doesn't prevent a judge from laughing in your face and tossing your idiotic case into the circular file.

As you said, Kingdoms don't have lawyers. THe BOD (via SCA, Inc) does have lawyers.

Simply put, Society Minimums are what the SCA, Inc has deemed "reasonably safe" for the purposes of combat, vis-a-vis the SCA waiver.

If someone requires a higher coverage than that, it's proof, basically, that they are intentionally being more damaging than "sca minimum" will protect from.

Like I said, believe it or don't, that's your choice. Get your own fucking legal secretary and do some digging.

not my job to make you happy.

Not all Kingdoms are Soc. Mins. Atenveldt has extra rules. heck Pennsic has extra rules over Soc mins.
You are a Liar.

Balin

While I am unable to determine is Maeryk is a 'Liar', it isn't so in this case. Since he never said "all Kingdoms", he said "so many" Kingdoms. So unless you have a much longer list than just Aten.....

Sorry had to dig back a couple of pages.

M said "Yeah, whatever dude. Talk to the BOD about why kingoms were STRONGLY urged to go to society mins.. and why so many who were adamantly against doing so, then did. "

This sounds like he is talking about all kingdoms.

Balin

He was. They were. Factually correct statements on his part.

Nothing remotely approaching a lie.

That any kingdom is using more than minimums doesn't change the simple fact that what he wrote was - and is - factually correct.

[Balin50]

And the outcome of said suit was.....?

And which Kingdoms lawyer handled the case?

You can make up any nonsense to bring a lawsuit against any party. It doesn't prevent a judge from laughing in your face and tossing your idiotic case into the circular file.

As you said, Kingdoms don't have lawyers. THe BOD (via SCA, Inc) does have lawyers.

Simply put, Society Minimums are what the SCA, Inc has deemed "reasonably safe" for the purposes of combat, vis-a-vis the SCA waiver.

If someone requires a higher coverage than that, it's proof, basically, that they are intentionally being more damaging than "sca minimum" will protect from.

Like I said, believe it or don't, that's your choice. Get your own fucking legal secretary and do some digging.

not my job to make you happy.

Not all Kingdoms are Soc. Mins. Atenveldt has extra rules. heck Pennsic has extra rules over Soc mins.
You are a Liar.

Balin

While I am unable to determine is Maeryk is a 'Liar', it isn't so in this case. Since he never said "all Kingdoms", he said "so many" Kingdoms. So unless you have a much longer list than just Aten.....

Sorry had to dig back a couple of pages.

M said "Yeah, whatever dude. Talk to the BOD about why kingoms were STRONGLY urged to go to society mins.. and why so many who were adamantly against doing so, then did. "

This sounds like he is talking about all kingdoms.

Balin

He was. They were. Factually correct statements on his part.

Nothing remotely approaching a lie.

That any kingdom is using more than minimums doesn't change the simple fact that what he wrote was - and is - factually correct.

We were urged? When? By whom? For what reasons? The fact is that now many Kingdoms require more than the mins.

Balin

[Kilkenny]

We were urged? When? By whom? For what reasons? The fact is that now many Kingdoms require more than the mins.

Balin

Ok. So Maeryk told you by whom, and gave reasons. Right there where you called him a liar.

You owe him an apology.

You want to know when? Why don't you do what he suggested and ask the BoD about it?

Just because you are not aware of something happening does not mean it did not happen.

[Oscad]

"You are a Liar" is a very strong and precise statement. I would expect anyone using such language to be able to support it; which you have so far failed to do.

Sorry had to dig back a couple of pages.

M said "Yeah, whatever dude. Talk to the BOD about why kingoms were STRONGLY urged to go to society mins.. and why so many who were adamantly against doing so, then did. "

This sounds like he is talking about all kingdoms.

Balin

Yes, lets parse that a bit, what he said was (paraphrased)
'Kingdoms were urged'
and
'So many did'

So even if your *assumption* is correct, and the first term insinuates 'all' kingdoms... do you have any supporting information that it is not true?

You boldly state your 'proof' of Aten not going minimum.... but he only claimed that 'So many" went that way... never said all did.



Maybe he is a liar... maybe the BoD never urged anyone to go with minimums... maybe they did and no Kingdom agreed....maybe.... but nothing you have provided supports either of those. Yet you felt comfortable calling him a Liar.

[Balin50]

"You are a Liar" is a very strong and precise statement. I would expect anyone using such language to be able to support it; which you have so far failed to do.

Sorry had to dig back a couple of pages.

M said "Yeah, whatever dude. Talk to the BOD about why kingoms were STRONGLY urged to go to society mins.. and why so many who were adamantly against doing so, then did. "

This sounds like he is talking about all kingdoms.

Balin

Yes, lets parse that a bit, what he said was (paraphrased)
'Kingdoms were urged'
and
'So many did'

So even if your *assumption* is correct, and the first term insinuates 'all' kingdoms... do you have any supporting information that it is not true?

You boldly state your 'proof' of Aten not going minimum.... but he only claimed that 'So many" went that way... never said all did.



Maybe he is a liar... maybe the BoD never urged anyone to go with minimums... maybe they did and no Kingdom agreed....maybe.... but nothing you have provided supports either of those. Yet you felt comfortable calling him a Liar.

Yup

[Balin50]

We were urged? When? By whom? For what reasons? The fact is that now many Kingdoms require more than the mins.

Balin

Ok. So Maeryk told you by whom, and gave reasons. Right there where you called him a liar.

You owe him an apology.

You want to know when? Why don't you do what he suggested and ask the BoD about it?

Just because you are not aware of something happening does not mean it did not happen.

LOL
no he didn't.
no i don't
when did it happen? He said it he has to prove it, or tell me what rule you wrote?

Balin

[MJBlazek]

I will admit, neither of these threads gives me any deisre to visit Atenveldt.
Not that anybody really cares... just sayin.

[Kilkenny]

We were urged? When? By whom? For what reasons? The fact is that now many Kingdoms require more than the mins.

Balin

Ok. So Maeryk told you by whom, and gave reasons. Right there where you called him a liar.

You owe him an apology.

You want to know when? Why don't you do what he suggested and ask the BoD about it?

Just because you are not aware of something happening does not mean it did not happen.

LOL
no he didn't.
no i don't
when did it happen? He said it he has to prove it, or tell me what rule you wrote?

Balin

So, you call a man a liar because you're an incompetent and claim the burden is on him ?

He did. You would if you were a man.

[Balin50]

We were urged? When? By whom? For what reasons? The fact is that now many Kingdoms require more than the mins.

Balin

Ok. So Maeryk told you by whom, and gave reasons. Right there where you called him a liar.

You owe him an apology.

You want to know when? Why don't you do what he suggested and ask the BoD about it?

Just because you are not aware of something happening does not mean it did not happen.

LOL
no he didn't.
no i don't
when did it happen? He said it he has to prove it, or tell me what rule you wrote?

Balin

So, you call a man a liar because you're an incompetent and claim the burden is on him ?

He did. You would if you were a man.

LOL if i'm a man i would LOL

Hush internet tough guy

Called him a Liar because he is. All kingdoms are not SCA min.

...but please continue it's all good

Balin

[Kilkenny]

Board conference call minutes from June 2004

"II. New Business

Legal expenses - Kingdom of Calontir

By consensus, Chairman Moore ruled that the SCA Inc. is willing to assist with a Kingdom's necessary legal fees on a case-by-case basis. "

Not only can Kingdoms hire lawyers, but the Corporation may even help pay for them.

Not to confuse any of the discussion with facts, but, hey, ya know..

[Balin50]

Board conference call minutes from June 2004

"II. New Business

Legal expenses - Kingdom of Calontir

By consensus, Chairman Moore ruled that the SCA Inc. is willing to assist with a Kingdom's necessary legal fees on a case-by-case basis. "

Not only can Kingdoms hire lawyers, but the Corporation may even help pay for them.

Not to confuse any of the discussion with facts, but, hey, ya know..

Ummm i was never talking about lawyers. Just saying.

[Kilkenny]

Board conference call minutes from June 2004

"II. New Business

Legal expenses - Kingdom of Calontir

By consensus, Chairman Moore ruled that the SCA Inc. is willing to assist with a Kingdom's necessary legal fees on a case-by-case basis. "

Not only can Kingdoms hire lawyers, but the Corporation may even help pay for them.

Not to confuse any of the discussion with facts, but, hey, ya know..

Ummm i was never talking about lawyers. Just saying.

And it isn't all about you

There's a more recent policy ruling by the Board on the subject of lawyers. Oct. 2008 meeting.

"2. The Board approved the following addition to the Corporate Policies of the SCA, Inc. to be effective not later than January 1, 2009: "Only the President of the Society for Creative Anachronism, Inc., has the ability to retain legal counsel (attorney, barrister, solicitor, et. al.), whether paid or unpaid (pro bono) on behalf of the Society for Creative Anachronism, Inc. or any of its branches. No other officer, at any level of governance of the Society for Creative Anachronism, Inc. has the authority to retain (even pro bono) legal counsel (attorney, barrister, solicitor, et. al.) to advise or represent the Society for Creative Anachronism, Inc. or any branch, without prior written authorization and confirmation of the retention of such counsel from the President","

Again, the change in policy makes it clear that prior to that time, Kingdoms were permitted to retain legal counsel.

Whether this Oct. 2008 policy remains in effect I can't say at the moment. The SCA Inc. webpage seems to be having technical difficulties with the BoD minutes and sources I was able to review only covered April 2009 back to 2003/2004.

[Oscad]

Called him a Liar because he is. All kingdoms are not SCA min.

Balin

And exactly where, pray tell, did he *ever* say that *all* kingdoms were at SCA minimums???

He said all were urged, and *some* complied.

You call a man a liar, and then are incapable of quoting him correctly. It is almost like you are lying to try and prove your point.....

[Duke Areus]

I will admit, neither of these threads gives me any deisre to visit Atenveldt.
Not that anybody really cares... just sayin.

Lets be fair, if I were an outsider looking in, and looking at the argumentative and opinionated views expressed on the Archive by members of EVERY Kingdom, I wouldn't want to play at all. Anywhere.

Face it, there are a lot of assholes on this list. I'm one of them.

I assure you, that while they are both very dear friends of mine, Johno and Balin's posts do not reflect the views of Atenveldt as a whole. They express and reflect the views of Johno and Balin. They are entitled to them. Hell, I disagree with them quite often. Doesn't change the fact that they have just as much right to express themselves as you do.

There are people in every Kingdom that, in my mind, are complete wastes of flesh who wouldn't get a drop of piss from me if they were on fire, but by the same facet, I have dear friends in every Kingdom as well.

Guess my point is, just because you disagree with a few guys, don't let that effect your opinion of the other 2000 or so (at my last membership report) members of my populace.

[Duke Areus]

Called him a Liar because he is. All kingdoms are not SCA min.

Balin

And exactly where, pray tell, did he *ever* say that *all* kingdoms were at SCA minimums???

He said all were urged, and *some* complied.

You call a man a liar, and then are incapable of quoting him correctly. It is almost like you are lying to try and prove your point.....

Seriously. There's a reason all the kingdoms went to society minimums.. because to stay above those minimums was a lawsuit waiting for a place to happen.

[MJBlazek]

I will admit, neither of these threads gives me any deisre to visit Atenveldt.
Not that anybody really cares... just sayin.

Lets be fair, if I were an outsider looking in, and looking at the argumentative and opinionated views expressed on the Archive by members of EVERY Kingdom, I wouldn't want to play at all. Anywhere.

Face it, there are a lot of assholes on this list. I'm one of them.

I assure you, that while they are both very dear friends of mine, Johno and Balin's posts do not reflect the views of Atenveldt as a whole. They express and reflect the views of Johno and Balin. They are entitled to them. Hell, I disagree with them quite often. Doesn't change the fact that they have just as much right to express themselves as you do.

There are people in every Kingdom that, in my mind, are complete wastes of flesh who wouldn't get a drop of piss from me if they were on fire, but by the same facet, I have dear friends in every Kingdom as well.

Guess my point is, just because you disagree with a few guys, don't let that effect your opinion of the other 2000 or so (at my last membership report) members of my populace.

I can see, and understand that. I thank you for your level headedness.
But I must point out, that we the society as a whole, are Judged by our worst, and ignored at our best.

[FrauHirsch]

Caid used to have the position of "Chancellor" too and this was held by an attorney.

Interestingly, the Adrian Empire has the position of Chancellor, but its more related to interpretation of bylaws and manuals when there are conflicts of opinion. Its also who chairs business meetings. Usually they follow a simplified parliamentary procedure for consistency.

Caid has a requirement for rigid material to protect the forearm and sides of elbows and knees for many years. This was added due to a series of fractures. This doesn't mean that people don't still occasionally get broken, but less so.

[Oscad]

Called him a Liar because he is. All kingdoms are not SCA min.

Balin

And exactly where, pray tell, did he *ever* say that *all* kingdoms were at SCA minimums???

He said all were urged, and *some* complied.

You call a man a liar, and then are incapable of quoting him correctly. It is almost like you are lying to try and prove your point.....

Seriously. There's a reason all the kingdoms went to society minimums.. because to stay above those minimums was a lawsuit waiting for a place to happen.

Your Majesty, Thank you. Your Search-fu is obviously better than mine or Balins.

[Count Johnathan]

What no apology to Balin, Oscad? That is Interesting.

HM Phelan is correct. I have never claimed to represent the views or opinions of any kingdom or party other than myself.

Oh and Kingdoms don't have lawyers.

[Agentofselection]

A philosophical point: it is possible to state something untrue without being a liar. This is often known as "being mistaken."
To lie is to intentionally deceive.
Proving that someone has said something untrue is not the same as proving that they have intentionally deceived.

[Kilkenny]

[

Hush internet tough guy

Called him a Liar because he is. All kingdoms are not SCA min.

...but please continue it's all good

Balin

You fail reading comprehension. As to internet tough guy - that's your roll, not mine, you can keep it.

Maeryk did not lie. You do not know what he was talking about and are still not comprehending what he said.

[Keegan Ingrassia]

Ya know...I was getting annoyed/aggrivated, reading this and the monstrosity of the spear tip thread.

But then, it crossed over into the realm of just plain silly.

Carry on.

[Peikko]

[Peikko]

oh yeah and...[img]http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/upload/2010/03/how_to_drive_a_mathematician_c/Pie-Straw.jpeg[/img]

[Leo Medii]

I direct your attention to the word 'minimum'. SCA minimum armor is for fools and experts.

Regards

Avery

I would take out the last part. Even an expert can be foolish, and just plain lucky to not have gotten broke yet.

[Balin50]

I direct your attention to the word 'minimum'. SCA minimum armor is for fools and experts.

Regards

Avery

I would take out the last part. Even an expert can be foolish, and just plain lucky to not have gotten broke yet.

Agree

[DukeAvery]

Agreed.

[Count Johnathan]

How bout foolish experts?

[Benedek]

How bout foolish experts?

I resemble that remark.....oh wait I thought you said expert fools!


And people say the poli board is uncivil.

[Sigifrith Hauknefr]

I actually think it's quite lame for expert fighters to run around with no body armor. Especially Knights. EVEN 8th Century Norse or whatever you guys with Tunics are "simulating". What are you, some kind of beggar?

I spent almost all of my war fighting in 2010 fighting in a Kidney belt and hexpad shirt (with a tunic over it, duh). I kind of despise all the pictures I have of me doing it. So I am back to the stainless lamellar for 2011. Lamellar is hard (impossible) to document for western europeans, but at least it's ARMOR.

Note that I don't have a problem with "hidden" arms and legs - I do this too, but I am still somewhat encumbered by my hidden spring steel/leather/plastic limb armor.