"The Sword in Two Hands by Brian Price" review wan

[Sasha_Khan]

I might darken his shop door. I might loom just outside, and hand out explanatory pamphlets explaining Important Facts You Should Know About Chivalry Bookshelf, and perform sock puppet street theater featuring Mary Rosh Smith for a limited time only.

I'm not promising, mind you. But I might.

I'm catching up on this thread from a motel room, and I just startled my roommate with my mostly-stifled outburst.

I'm wondering if I giggled or if I tittered...

[Eamonn MacCampbell]

Wow...this is about the longest thread I have ever read...Been following it since page 7. It is extremely devastating to read in all that has gone on, and I would have just stayed out but I must say something..

Aaron...Some time ago you got burned by a Knight, and at times you have allowed this contempt of knights come to the surface, and then back peddle from what you said. I would ask that you think of this,

a Knight is fallible....

Let me repeat that, a Knight is fallible...Why??? Because under that belt and spurs...He is just a man, and you, as a Christian ,know well...That ALL men are fallible.

This doesn't make them all bad, just human...Many years ago, in another medieval group, I was one such Knight, I was elevated to the title of Knighthood. Within this group, politics got bad, and I as a knight, thought it was my job to defend those who did not have that belt...After a long fight, I realised that it ment nothing, all that I tried to do, all that I stood for, was an illusion within this group. After 6 months, I struck my own belt and spurs, and explained in a rather public way, that I would follow no longer a group of people who felt that the destruction of anothers dream was more important a game than what "we" believe true knighthood to be.

There has been Knights here on this board, that I have gone toe to toe with on different issues, and through it all, I have never lost faith in the fact that they wear that belt...Count Jonathan is one of them, but I respect him although I know we probable will never see eye to eye on everything, But I know enough about him by reading his posts, that he is a good Knight. Sir Vitus is the same, I have read his posts, and he makes me think...And I have read when he him self has called what he has done into question...These are ment o look up to...many others on this thread, I also have respect for...One time a Knight did you wrong, because he was human...Do you hate all humans, because of our nature??? I don't think so.....Look not at one did, and become dis-illusioned with them all..

To Greg and Christian....I wish you guys the best with this on going case. I have a few title that I bought a few years back from CB, and although I have no one any where near me to learn and study with, I still take them out from time to to time and go through them learning what I can. I do hope you are able to recover all you need to hopefully re-issue some of these books, as there are still many on my have to have list, and will only be getting them from your new site. I thank you most whole heartedly for writting these books and allowing a middle age fat guy to live his dream from his youth about learning how the medieval knight fought...Thank you.

[Broadway]

I think that this quite possibly is the awesomest review of a book ever written.

[Baron Alcyoneus]

I might darken his shop door. I might loom just outside, and hand out explanatory pamphlets explaining Important Facts You Should Know About Chivalry Bookshelf, and perform sock puppet street theater featuring Mary Rosh Smith for a limited time only.

I'm not promising, mind you. But I might.

I'm catching up on this thread from a motel room, and I just startled my roommate with my mostly-stifled outburst.

I'm wondering if I giggled or if I tittered...

I bet you squeed.

[Vitus von Atzinger]

Aaron, over the years I have talked to various fighters from the places where you have participated, both belted and unbelted.

Look in the mirror, dude. Start there.

[Kilkenny]

They did mention that he'd (stolen) the masters to some jewelry like items, or made unauthorized copies, there are a few pages to go through.

But until the people the original masters speak up and bring up proofs/contracts, it's nothing really "clear".

So, to Charlotte, there's hearsay of such, but nothing clear, at the moment.

Correct me if I'm wrong, I might have missed something.

With regard to certain items of jewelry, I believe that Sir Mencken reported on Fettered Cock's perspective. I think that is as clear as the authors' assertions regarding their books.

[Galleron]

The Infamy of Chivalry Bookshelf is Reported in Germany and Sweden


http://willscommonplacebook.blogspot.co ... lf-is.html

[Sir Guy]

I deleted my earlier post to this but I will try again. I was there (or had just left) Japan) for the "banning" incedent. I got it a bit wrong. Aaron did nothing directly to tear apart the group.

The knight felt Aaron was unsafe/cheating (I did not think he was cheating) because he could not feel blows in this armor for whatever reason. The Knight did I think threaten to ban Aaron but never went through with it. It had gotten back to the Knight that Aaron had talked about going to the Knights mundane boss about what Aaron percieved as an infration on the Knights part with studends (I think we were drinking in front of them at a bar everyone hung out at) at an SCA social event. While Aaron followed, it did getback to the Knight, who went to Jag. Jag recommened limited/no contract with Aaron. Which can hurt a fighter practice when there are only three folks.

That was the story behind the banning as I saw it.

Aside from that Aaron did alot of good in Japan for our small group. He always opened up his home, As long as they were mostly main steam we let him run events as he saw fit, and he did alot of them (i limited him to one grand counted blows melee a year) and he worked hard.

Aaron,

I'm sure you are a swell fellow, but you repeatedly throw barbs at SCA knights on this board, and then repeatedly have to come back with a mea culpa because you wrote something nasty that gets you beat down. Perhaps you should consider this before you start your posts along this line. I don't know who broke your belief in knights, but I really think your barely controlled disdain is significantly misplaced.

Olafr

Sir Olaf,

I do believe I mentioned that the KSCAs are helping me.

It wasn't until a KSCA tried to ban me from fighting that tossed me over the edge. I was enranged like I've never been before in my life...and I never want to be that angry again. But I remember what set me off and work to avoid it.

Some good KSCAs have tossed me a rope to climb back up from the edge I tossed myself off, as I cited in the post you cited.

I should just avoid the mea culpas or the subject entirely and let them sink on their own. Or should I help and toss them a rope to help, as they've helped me?

My faith in the SCA knight has never been on really sound footing. I wouldn't gauge the SCA knighthood ethics by my view of them.

Some I've met have been wonderful. In fact I am happy to call most of them knights, in the best of terms in regards to knighthood.

But I think they do need to police their own, publish a code of ethics that applies to both in the SCA and out of the SCA and have a much tighter control.

...

Nothing will replace my shattered faith in the knighthood, but I can pick up the pieces and some good KSCAs have been helping me duct tape it back together. It's not great but it's not in shards either.

To translate: Don't judge the KSCAs from my views, because my views are skewed and I know it. I suggested a ethics rule for KSCAs to assist in helping out the populace view of them (or at least mine). I understand that view might not be for all.

I'll PM you my phone number if you'd like to chat.

Have a great weekend,

-Aaron

[mordreth]

Hello, Louis,

Just FYI, the Girl Scouts totally kick our ass.

In spades: pathetic, isn't it?

Lady Charlotte, former 1st Class Girl Scout and Daisy Scout/Brownie Scout/Junior Scout/Senior Girl Scout leader for over a decade...

Oddly enough my wife was a leader in the Nassau County chapter, they're fairly no nonsense.

I was at Morgan Stanley when it was a 13 partner, 600 employee privately held firm with three US offices.
It was made very clear at interview 1 that an ethics charge which endangered "the firm's franchise" would lead to immediate suspension (during invesitgation), or dismissal

[Sander Marechal]

The Infamy of Chivalry Bookshelf is Reported in Germany and Sweden

http://willscommonplacebook.blogspot.co ... lf-is.html

Good. I have brought this thread to the attention of my WMA school. They use CHT's "Secrets of Medieval Swordsmanship" as course material, so it is often recommended and bought by students. Our local WMA store has a couple of copies in stock still, but I hope that they will able to procure new stock in the future.

[robyn]

guys yes, I have not been here for a while, I know.

I just wanted to confirm that not the "issue" itself but this thread gets handed around everywhere in the world.

I do not even say "known world", because how I found out about the issue was on a non-sca forum. it gets blogged around everywhere.

no proof, no sights of lawsuits, just this thread and summaries about it.

which makes me wonder. I never doubted the power of the internet, but this is-lets say interesting. I have only read about ten pages of the thread so far, and I am worried.

friends doing business with friends is always a big danger. as soon as something steps over a quite thin line, things start to explode in peoples faces. emotions are included, and others are dragged in.

I in no means want to defend anyone or anything, I just wnat to make you guys aware how much POWER this thread has, and that it could ruin lifes, meaning nut just the life of one person.

do we for sure know who the people leading the claims here are? I think we cant. some of us here are validated, means we have seen each other and know we are "true". some arent, and many might say "who is this woman that wrote this post" aswell.

How much do we trust all this, and how much do we get infected by it, trying to find that ominous pea under the 10 mattresses?

As I said, I havent read all of it yet, but I want to ask you to REALLY make up your OWN mind and take into account that either this or that could have happened. human interaction doesnt always work linear, and the net seems to be powerful too.
this fred has exploded to the known and unknown world, I just want everyone, that wants to join in the bashing, to sit back and consider a moment.

thank you for fairness!

Robyn

[JT]

Hi Robyn! Welcome back!

Along with the fact that several (most?) of the people here claiming harm done are long-time, well-established people (as opposed to random usernames on a forum), there is also the post made by Brian Price himself -- again, using a long-established username, and with no e-mailed complaint from a "real" Brian to me complaining that someone was impersonating him.


I agree that one should look at the poster, and look at the support for the poster's claims, before drawing any conclusions for oneself. I hope that when this is resolved through court filings and judgments, someone is willing and able to post that information, along with supporting links to an authoritative location of that information.

[Sasha_Khan]

I bet you squeed.

I asked. She said I DID NOT squee, but might have 'meeped'

[Nissan Maxima]

Doesn't look like any books for sale at Gulf Wars.

[Galleron]

Doesn't look like any books for sale at Gulf Wars.

Does that mean any books by the disputing authors, or any books at all?

[Morgan]

I don't recall seeing books at all. I'll look again.

[Greg Mele]

Thank you all for checking.

One other favor - for those of you posting to other forums, especially in foreign languages, could you please be sure to make it clear that we are speaking of Revival.us/Chivalry Bookshelf and not Revival Clothing? So far, it doesn't seem to have caused confusion, but I don't want to cause any confusion.

Thanks!

[Galleron]

More commentary:

http://willscommonplacebook.blogspot.co ... valry.html

[Ii Saburou]

Because people were stating that the KSCA or local royalty should expel people who do not act in a manner that is in accordance with the chivalric ideals of the Order or the SCA, I should point out SCA Corpora (my apologies if this was pointed out earlier, but I don't recall seeing it explicitly stated):


E. Reservations to the Board
1. Degradation from the Peerage
The Board reserves the right to degrade a person from the Peerage. However, kingdom law may define conditions and procedures under which a recommendation for such action may be made to the Board. Unless stipulated otherwise by the Board, the Board's decision in such a case applies only to the matter at hand. Nothing prohibits a person who has been degraded from any order of the peerage from being elevated to the peerage at a later date, should the Crown determine that the person in question now meets the requirements of the order to which he is being elevated.


So, that is a BoD only function, per SCA law.

[Jeff J]

Which makes a certain amount of sense. If that authority were vested with the kingdom, a current king could capriciously "De-peer" anyone and everyone he wanted to. It says the kingdoms can request the action, though.

[Galleron]

And since this review began with a request for one of Brian Price's books, here is a review of his Book of the Tournament

http://willscommonplacebook.blogspot.co ... ament.html

[Thorsteinn Raudskeggr]

BTW I just got a safe copy of 'Spada 2' in the post today. Just read the first article of the realism of wounds. First thoughts:

Awesome! Must share! Great way to start the book!


-Ivan

[Lady Charlotte]

Hello, Galleron,

And since this review began with a request for one of Brian Price's books, here is a review of his Book of the Tournament

http://willscommonplacebook.blogspot.co ... ament.html

You've outdone yourself -- this is the second time in a matter of weeks that you've made me laugh so hard I had tears on my cheeks!

Dare I suggest working Lady Macbeth into your Sock Puppet Theater?

Still giggling,

Lady Charlotte

[Ii Saburou]

Which makes a certain amount of sense. If that authority were vested with the kingdom, a current king could capriciously "De-peer" anyone and everyone he wanted to. It says the kingdoms can request the action, though.

Looking further... they have two levels of sanctions they can levy--one of them does remove all *privileges* of rank (and/or banishes them from the kingdom), but only for the reign of the monarch (to prevent the situation mentioned above). I know there are cases where people have been sanctioned through multiple reigns, however--I believe while suggestions for more serious action were pending review by the SCA BoD. However, as they are also prevented from publically discussing the reasons for any sanctions, it can be difficult for people outside to know exactly what went on.

-Ii

[Vitus von Atzinger]

Galleron, beware of the decadent pleasures of kicking persons in the nuts after they have clearly shown themselves to be worthy of having said nuts kicked.

[Baron Alcyoneus]

And since this review began with a request for one of Brian Price's books, here is a review of his Book of the Tournament

http://willscommonplacebook.blogspot.co ... ament.html

Finally, there is the discussion of chivalric ethics and ideals. As an example of writing on a subject on which the author is spectacularly ill qualified to give advice, this ranks with Lady Macbeth's On Hospitality and Richard III's Book of Nurture of Nephews: How to Be a Good and Faithful Guardian to Minor Relatives.

[Baron Alcyoneus]

I did confirm some of this information with a merchant friend who had heard a good deal about it at Pennsic, but had filed it in the "unconfirmed" reports.

[Feargus]

Galleron, beware of the decadent pleasures of kicking persons in the nuts after they have clearly shown themselves to be worthy of having said nuts kicked.

Sir Vitus,

You've said may things over the years I've perused this forum. Some I agreed with, some, I have not. I won't get into the latter, as it would be pointless to this discussion.

You've kind of poked me in a sensitive spot here. Personally, I delight in administering a hearty round of Ballstomp to the deserving. It feels good to give a bastard a good metaphorical kicking

You have, however, very succinctly and effectively reminded me that engaging this pleasure past a certain point becomes righteous no more, and simply ends up as empty Sadism, no worse then bullying.

For that, I thank you.

[Leo Medii]

For a long time, on the top shelf of my nightstand reliquary was a copy of The Book of the Tournament I got as a gift for being awarded a most chivalrous unbelt award at one of the first TOC's. It has been there ever since.

Recently I took it down. Way back in the day it was like a guide to being a man at arms of my time in the SCA. I was actually sad to pack it up in a box and put it in the hay barn.

[Jeff J]

You have, however, very succinctly and effectively reminded me that engaging this pleasure past a certain point becomes righteous no more, and simply ends up as empty Sadism, no worse then bullying.

However, the current situation exist mostly from lack of follow-through, and many people "just letting it drop".

[Lady Charlotte]

Hello, Vitus,

Galleron, beware of the decadent pleasures of kicking persons in the nuts after they have clearly shown themselves to be worthy of having said nuts kicked.

I understand your point and, where appropriately applicable, agree with it, but what if said person is continuing to steal from the "kicker" on a daily basis?

I wonder how many people who've been following this thread recall at this point what Galleron explained on March 2nd:

In Chronique Issue #10, Brian price reprinted my copyrighted illustrations from Elizabeth Bennett's translation of King Rene's Tournament Book without attribution or my permission, on pages 37, 43, and 60. You can see the the illustrations here:

http://www.princeton.edu/~ezb/rene/renehome.html

And the theft is continuing: http://revival.us/chronique10-tournamen ... anjou.aspx

Every time Mr. Price sells an issue of Chronique #10, he not only unjustly enriches himself at Galleron's expense -- as he does when he sells the books of the authors he's failed to pay royalties to -- he also steals Galleron's renown as an artist, because he denies Galleron credit for his own artwork. At least the book authors have retained their own renown.


Hello, Jeff,

However, the current situation exist mostly from lack of follow-through, and many people "just letting it drop".

I think that's grossly and unfairly trivializing the dilemma of the injured authors: for each of them individually the cost of suing Mr. Price would have been prohibitively expensive. Mr. Price's pattern of behavior indicates, in my opinion, a conscious assessment of how much he could get away with before people would potentially band together to make pushing back an economically sensible risk jointly.

Lady Charlotte

[Apollonian]

With all this criticism of the SCA knights not taking action sooner and not “controlling their own”.
And as the knight who stood up 20 years ago in the belted circle that was considering Brian for Knighthood, and said, "If you consider me a knight, Brian, should be a Knight."
I offer up my belt.

Hell, I'll take it and you can wear mine. It's a nice belt.

If we were to be held accountable for every time we thought the best of someone who later proved us wrong, none of us would be knights. On the obverse, how often do we think the worst and are proven wrong. Sometimes it takes a few years, and sometimes twenty.

I do believe we should be judged concerning what we do about it.

Rodrigo Falcone, KSCA

[Jeff J]

I think that's grossly and unfairly trivializing the dilemma of the injured authors: for each of them individually the cost of suing Mr. Price would have been prohibitively expensive. Mr. Price's pattern of behavior indicates, in my opinion, a conscious assessment of how much he could get away with before people would potentially band together to make pushing back an economically sensible risk jointly.

Lady Charlotte

Not blaming the victims, but there's a LOT of history of malfeasance in the guy's history, with too many people writing off the loss lond before this publisher scam. I know I'd been warned about him many years ago, and have made sure he never got any opportunities to rip me off, but from the "Me-too"s on this thread, a lot of people apparently didn't say anything (Chris Gilman aside).

[Galleron]

For a long time, on the top shelf of my nightstand reliquary was a copy of The Book of the Tournament I got as a gift for being awarded a most chivalrous unbelt award at one of the first TOC's. It has been there ever since.

Recently I took it down. Way back in the day it was like a guide to being a man at arms of my time in the SCA. I was actually sad to pack it up in a box and put it in the hay barn.

To cheer you up a little, here is a link to the William Morris Order of Chivalry. A lovely book, and this one is guaranteed to contain absolutely no Brian Price.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/22912187/Caxt ... f-Chivalry

[Rey]

This is the Thread that never Ends,
It goes on and on my Friends,
Ivanis Started Posting it just looking for a Book,
But now everyones complaing about what Brain Price took.

This is the Thread that never Ends,
It goes on and on my Friends,
Ivanis Started Posting just looking for a Book,
But now everyones complaing about what Brain Price took.

This is the Thread that never Ends,
It goes on and on my Friends,
Ivanis Started Posting just looking for a Book,
But now everyones complaing about what Brain Price took.

etc etc etc,

Sorry I think I channeled Lambchop for a min.


Rey