The Armour Archive

Greg Mele wrote:Galleron,

I just checked the paperback edition and it does appear there, on the back cover, not in the frontispiece or in the introduction.

I have the first edition hardback as well, but without a dust-jacket. I can only say that in the book itself there is no mention of Morris, but there *is* a statement that the Ordene is presented "for the first time in English".

The early editions of Lull were very low print runs, so Brian may have corrected this at some point. I can't speak to this more than that, since the allegations by the U or Iowa was the first I ever knew of this.

I would also add that one should compare Morris' version of Lull with Brian's "re-Englished" Lull. I haven't made an extremely close examination of this, just a few pages, but those certainly suggested that Brian was not working from Caxton, but transcribing Morris. Again, would would need a more thorough comparison.

Best,

Greg

As far as I can tell, Morris follows Caxton pretty faithfully. He doesn't even modernize the spelling.

Dear Frau Hirsch,

I can certainly understand the desire for action on the various organizational levels of the SCA; certainly a knight of our order would face considerable consequences for such behaviors.

That said, my more immediate concerns are with Brian's continued merchanting at large SCA events. He's making money on what are, in effect, stolen goods. Further, his continuing business provides a venue for ensnaring others in the future.

I have been contacted by potential authors in the last few years, some of which I've been able to warn off dealing with Chivalry Bookshelf. However, for every one I've talked to, there must be ten that I haven't.

Brian's booths at events provide both sources of income for his criminal activities, as well as a potential trap for the uninformed. I hope one result of this thread will be the mitigation of that risk.

Yours,

Christian

863 page views for my blog summary, and it's the number three Google response for "Brian Price" chivalry bookshelf

Galleron wrote:863 page views for my blog summary, and it's the number three Google response for "Brian Price" chivalry bookshelf

:This thread is on-track to pass 40k pageviews by Monday the 7th, midday I'd guess...

Cleared that hurdle before 6:34 am Eastern standard... Sorry sir - no prize!

Christian,

The complaint process at those levels would be part of the steps needed to get a banishment from merchanting or even possibly attending SCA events.

For those of you outside the SCA, I'd write directly to the BoD.

Whatever action takes place in the civilian world, most clubs have their own internal complain procedures that can be used whether the real world actions come to fruition or not. The SCA complaint/dispute resolution process is not well written down and not very clear, but it has been used to remove other problems from SCA venues.

I don't know if Pennsic being under the auspices of the Coopers and not completely run by the SCA would be another issue. Perhaps someone more familiar with Pennsic could tell us if someone was banished from the SCA or Pennsic, could they still attend? Perhaps letters to the Crowns who run Pennsic would be useful to complain to as well, just to remove access to Pennsic - perhaps some from that area would provide contact info for the Crowns that are responsible for that event (East?)

If there are Renn faires or other venues he uses, you all could write to them too. I know Texas has a number of prominent Renaissance faires. Those typically are other business entities and don't want to deal with problem businesses.

-J

Although it cannot hurt to right the BoD Directly - they need to be invited to the party so to speak by the Kingdom where the party resides. Accordingly I would suggest any concerns be directed to the Kingdom Seneschal and Crown, and perhaps copy the Ansteorran Ombudsman on the BoD as well as the secretary of the Order of Chivarly.

FrauHirsch wrote:Christian,

The complaint process at those levels would be part of the steps needed to get a banishment from merchanting or even possibly attending SCA events.

For those of you outside the SCA, I'd write directly to the BoD.

Whatever action takes place in the civilian world, most clubs have their own internal complain procedures that can be used whether the real world actions come to fruition or not. The SCA complaint/dispute resolution process is not well written down and not very clear, but it has been used to remove other problems from SCA venues.

I don't know if Pennsic being under the auspices of the Coopers and not completely run by the SCA would be another issue. Perhaps someone more familiar with Pennsic could tell us if someone was banished from the SCA or Pennsic, could they still attend? Perhaps letters to the Crowns who run Pennsic would be useful to complain to as well, just to remove access to Pennsic - perhaps some from that area would provide contact info for the Crowns that are responsible for that event (East?)

If there are Renn faires or other venues he uses, you all could write to them too. I know Texas has a number of prominent Renaissance faires. Those typically are other business entities and don't want to deal with problem businesses.

-J

R&D is R&D.. if you are R&D'd, you cannot attend Pennsic, it _IS_ an SCA event, after all.

Of course, that would mean that the people on the gate would have to recognize him and enforce it.

I would think Pennsic would have some merchanting applications and such. I've heard of R&D'd people coming to an event and being escorted off the premises. Would the Crowns of the East and Middle be able to ban a merchant? Possibly.

It seems that you all should complain about both the business and both owners of that business, so that even the merchandise cannot be respresented at any booth.

I believe that there are things that *could* be done, but complaints with evidence should be sent to the proper channels in writing.

Is there any particular person who would like to gather evidence? There may be others willing to send email complaints to someone sending them all in as a package.

While activies from the 80s or 90s may be considered old history by some, it adds to the "Pattern of Behavior" which I believe most Orders would be concerned with when evaluating the complaints.

If the Ansteorran Crown were to issue an Absolute Banishment the person in question would be baned from any SCA activity in any Kingdom (including practices, wars, etc). The Banishment would automatically be sent to the BOD to be reviwed and for a possible R&D.

FrauHirsch wrote:I would think Pennsic would have some merchanting applications and such.

It's my understanding that Cindy Cooper is not very tolerant of merchants with poor business practices merchanting @ Pennsic.

Adrielle Kerrec wrote:If the Ansteorran Crown were to issue an Absolute Banishment the person in question would be baned from any SCA activity in any Kingdom (including practices, wars, etc). The Banishment would automatically be sent to the BOD to be reviwed and for a possible R&D.

That was my thought process in working with the Ansteorran Seneschal as a starting point.

Cindy Cooper is the decision maker as to who sells at Pennsic and who doesn't. As far as I know, the SCA has nothing to do with it. That's been the case for over 10 years.

The merchant info really only says that vendors who sell "knockoffs" and particular types of merchandise are not allowed. I have no knowledge of any established (sold at pennsic the previous year) merchant being denied space unless they break the rules (they are strictly enforced) or don't have their paperwork in order (PA tax license, insurance, etc). The rules are primarily about things like not having vehicles in the merch area after certain times, not subletting your space without merch office permission etc. There has not been anything in the rules about untoward business practices.

Generally, if Cindy has no issues with a vendor and they don't cause any trouble for her, they get to sell if all their ducks are in a row administratively.

At least that's been our experience and we've sold at Pennsic every year since 1993.

Jeffrey Hedgecock wrote:Cindy Cooper is the decision maker as to who sells at Pennsic and who doesn't. As far as I know, the SCA has nothing to do with it. That's been the case for over 10 years.

The merchant info really only says that vendors who sell "knockoffs" and particular types of merchandise are not allowed. I have no knowledge of any established (sold at pennsic the previous year) merchant being denied space unless they break the rules (they are strictly enforced) or don't have their paperwork in order (PA tax license, insurance, etc). The rules are primarily about things like not having vehicles in the merch area after certain times, not subletting your space without merch office permission etc. There has not been anything in the rules about untoward business practices.

Generally, if Cindy has no issues with a vendor and they don't cause any trouble for her, they get to sell if all their ducks are in a row administratively.

At least that's been our experience and we've sold at Pennsic every year since 1993.

If the authors assert that Chivalry Bookshelf has been in breach of contract since he stopped paying royalties, they could argue that CB is in a very similar situation to a merchant selling unauthorized knockoffs.

Their case would be even more compelling if a judge agreed with them.

I think Galleron has the right of it. At some point, any event organizer probably has to look at the implications of allowing illicit goods to be sold on-site.

Best,

Christian

I've done enough. Good luck, everyone.

Jeffrey Hedgecock wrote:Cindy Cooper is the decision maker as to who sells at Pennsic and who doesn't. As far as I know, the SCA has nothing to do with it. That's been the case for over 10 years.

Yup that's the case. But Cindy also has an SCA liaison that she delegates stuff to. Used to be Amy, one of Frog's campers. I used to camp right beside her. We'd sit around Frog's bonfire and I'd occasionally hear stories from the admin side of merchanting. Mostly people squabbling about space, mundane stuff you'd expect.

But. I seem to recall an incident where Amy had a merchant tossed off site because they wouldn't shut off their air conditioner in their trailer. It was noisy and it was making a river of water across the street. Multiple warnings were given first, all were ignored - so they got the boot. They were shown the door.

So it's pretty much like anything else where the Coopers are involved. The SCA advises them what to do, and the Coopers do their best to keep us happy. If the SCA asks the Coopers to drop the hammer on someone - they do. I've never heard of that request returning a no answer.

Louis de Leon wrote:

Jeffrey Hedgecock wrote:Cindy Cooper is the decision maker as to who sells at Pennsic and who doesn't. As far as I know, the SCA has nothing to do with it. That's been the case for over 10 years.

Yup that's the case. But Cindy also has an SCA liaison that she delegates stuff to. Used to be Amy, one of Frog's campers. I used to camp right beside her. We'd sit around Frog's bonfire and I'd occasionally hear stories from the admin side of merchanting. Mostly people squabbling about space, mundane stuff you'd expect.

But. I seem to recall an incident where Amy had a merchant tossed off site because they wouldn't shut off their air conditioner in their trailer. It was noisy and it was making a river of water across the street. Multiple warnings were given first, all were ignored - so they got the boot. They were shown the door.

So it's pretty much like anything else where the Coopers are involved. The SCA advises them what to do, and the Coopers do their best to keep us happy. If the SCA asks the Coopers to drop the hammer on someone - they do. I've never heard of that request returning a no answer.

Olwyn?

Maeryk wrote:Olwyn?

Yeah I think that's her SCA name. It's been a while since she camped Swamp. BTW she's not the merchant liaison anymore. I think she might autocrat sometime down the road though.

Louis de Leon wrote:

Maeryk wrote:Olwyn?

Yeah I think that's her SCA name. It's been a while since she camped Swamp. BTW she's not the merchant liaison anymore. I think she might autocrat sometime down the road though.

She's not, but she's a friend, and knows all the people in all the right places.

Maeryk wrote:She's not, but she's a friend, and knows all the people in all the right places.

Exactly. If I can figure out who the current liaison is I'll post contact info here. I won't be contacting them, but interested parties may if they wish.

For people who might be interested in buying some of the books used, I'm selling some in the Classifieds: http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB2/ ... p?t=131048

I am pleased to say that Brian just responded to my email and stated that he will be shipping a large quantity of books to me tomorrow or Wednesday.

I am encouraged by this. Perhaps it is the beginning of a new and positive pattern of behavior.

I will notify this forum when the books arrive.

He's only doing it 'cuz I stuck up for him.

lol

...or because he is about to leave for Gulf Wars and has seen talk here about having him removed as a merchant at events.

Brian's made promises like this before - let's see what arrives, and when.

the crown of a kingdom can banish someone from attending events in their kingdom. not the entire sca.

pennsic is an sca event. cindy can not allow anyone banned from the sca to attend. that would breach the contract.

regards
logan

Adrielle Kerrec wrote:If the Ansteorran Crown were to issue an Absolute Banishment the person in question would be baned from any SCA activity in any Kingdom (including practices, wars, etc). The Banishment would automatically be sent to the BOD to be reviwed and for a possible R&D.

Talbot wrote:I am pleased to say that Brian just responded to my email and stated that he will be shipping a large quantity of books to me tomorrow or Wednesday.

I am encouraged by this. Perhaps it is the beginning of a new and positive pattern of behavior.

I will notify this forum when the books arrive.

Thanks Talbot, I'll shoot him an email and see if I can get my issue resolved as well. I'll keep everyone posted on a response.

I have received another email from Brian this morning detailing what titles and quantities will be sent to me either today or tomorrow. I feel very positive about his desire to make ammends. I will let you know when they arrive.

Brian contacted me this morning trying to get a refund to me. I won't respond because he has bigger fish to fry right now.

This must be "making amends before I get lynched at Gulf Wars" day!

While I appreciate Doug doing what he has done, remember: Brian is getting out of a debt he owes Doug by providing books that he's not paying his authors for - he's letting Doug do that. As the oer-unit cost of the book to Brian is about 1/10 the cover-price, 1/5 - 1/4 if we include warehousing, handling, product degradation, etc., he's paying $2k of debt with about $200 - 400 of expense.

Now, here is the real question: last week, seven of Brian's *authors*, including myself, have written him with a specific set of demands as regards our intellectual property and due royalties. A reply is due tomorrow....I guess we'll all see what happens.

Doug, get a tracking number.

Greg

dukelogan wrote:the crown of a kingdom can banish someone from attending events in their kingdom. not the entire sca.

pennsic is an sca event. cindy can not allow anyone banned from the sca to attend. that would breach the contract.

regards
logan

Adrielle Kerrec wrote:If the Ansteorran Crown were to issue an Absolute Banishment the person in question would be baned from any SCA activity in any Kingdom (including practices, wars, etc). The Banishment would automatically be sent to the BOD to be reviwed and for a possible R&D.

Exile from the Realm applies only to their kingdom. Absolute Banishment precludes attendance in any realm.

Ihave been following this thread for a few days and I must say. UN-FUCKING BELEAVABLE!

You mean to tell me that a large chunk royalty and noblity of the SCA knew about this and didn't speak up until highly respected people get screwed?

Thanks for the comic irony.

Aerimus13 wrote:Ihave been following this thread for a few days and I must say. UN-FUCKING BELEAVABLE!

You mean to tell me that a large chunk royalty and noblity of the SCA knew about this and didn't speak up until highly respected people get screwed?

Thanks for the comic irony.

Things to keep in mind:

- Few if any knew all of this together until recently. Many of the principal players only knew their own bits.

- It concerns Real Life business dealings, many of which were entirely outside the SCA.

Greg Mele wrote:This must be "making amends before I get lynched at Gulf Wars" day!

While I appreciate Doug doing what he has done, remember: Brian is getting out of a debt he owes Doug by providing books that he's not paying his authors for - he's letting Doug do that. As the oer-unit cost of the book to Brian is about 1/10 the cover-price, 1/5 - 1/4 if we include warehousing, handling, product degradation, etc., he's paying $2k of debt with about $200 - 400 of expense.

Now, here is the real question: last week, seven of Brian's *authors*, including myself, have written him with a specific set of demands as regards our intellectual property and due royalties. A reply is due tomorrow....I guess we'll all see what happens.

Doug, get a tracking number.

Greg

Also, if anyone is accepting books in lieu of payment of a significant debt Brian owes them, it would be a considerable courtesy if they would inform the authors of the amount and the titles.

Brian will owe royalties on the transaction, even if no cash changes hands.

I believe the implication is that the author will be receiving copies of his own books, not just random boxes of books to sell.