Strange question about spear grabbing...

Decimus Germanicus · Post by **Decimus Germanicus** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 2:47 am

I saw an odd thing at fight practice this Spring. 2 folks were paired against each other... one with a short spear and back-up weapon and the other with a single broadsword and no shield. The swordsman yanked the spear out of the other guys hand and gacked him. I know its common place in melee, but I found that kinda odd in single combat. Is such a move legit in tournament?

freiman the minstrel · Wed Oct 08, 2003 2:59 am

In this particular instance it's OK. The spearman had a secondary weapon and thus was not "defenseless" as the SCA uses the term.

Had he not had a backup, it would have been a no-no.

freiman

Decimus Germanicus · Post by **Decimus Germanicus** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:03 am

Thanks for the clarification. I swear... the things Ive seen after my five year break from the SCA never seems to amaze me. Un-padded, 7 1/2 foot polearms even!!! I remember back when face-thrusts were just getting into fashion.

freiman the minstrel · Wed Oct 08, 2003 4:14 am

The changes the SCA has made in the particulars of their combat are vast. Every Earl Marshal has their own opinions on how things should happen. Generally the changes are relativly superficial surface changes.

But the rules concerning striking a defenseless opponent haven't changed in the fourteen years I have been a fighter.

Are you moldy enough to remember the "experimental" garden hose maces? I loved those, they thumped.

f

Owen · Post by **Owen** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 5:03 am

Was the backup weapon in hand? The way I've generally seen it practiced, if not, he's "defenseless" until he draws it.

------------------
Owen
"Death is but a doorway-
Here, let me hold that for you"

Alcyoneus · Post by **Alcyoneus** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 5:06 am

Don't completely take it away, control it, and hit him.

Decimus Germanicus · Post by **Decimus Germanicus** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 5:40 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by freiman the minstrel:


But the rules concerning striking a defenseless opponent haven't changed in the fourteen years I have been a fighter.

Are you moldy enough to remember the "experimental" garden hose maces? I loved those, they thumped.

f<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The garden hose maces dont ring a bell... but I authorized in '92. What did they look like?

Decimus Germanicus · Post by **Decimus Germanicus** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 5:42 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Owen:
Was the backup weapon in hand? The way I've generally seen it practiced, if not, he's "defenseless" until he draws it.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If I remember right he had his backup attached to his wrist via a lanyard... it wasnt in his hand. I think thats why it struck me as odd.

Decimus Germanicus · Post by **Decimus Germanicus** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 5:43 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Alcyoneus:
Don't completely take it away, control it, and hit him. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh I agree 110%!!! You sound like the guy Im training. He's a Kenpo junkie!!!

Vogeljager · Post by **Vogeljager** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:37 am

My views, for what they're worth;

A disarm-kill is perfectly legal and very cool if you can pull it off in one movement.

I havn't been to many tournaments. What's the rule on a weaponless opponent? If your opponent loses his weapon for any reason do you get a choice of forcing him/her to yeild or returning the weapon?

Decimus Germanicus · Post by **Decimus Germanicus** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 10:56 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Vogeljager:
My views, for what they're worth;

A disarm-kill is perfectly legal and very cool if you can pull it off in one movement.

I havn't been to many tournaments. What's the rule on a weaponless opponent? If your opponent loses his weapon for any reason do you get a choice of forcing him/her to yeild or returning the weapon?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I believe your correct... yield or return it. Although I havent encountered it firsthand at tourney. But your right... a disarm-kill in one fluid movement would be the cat's meow.

Ulrich · Post by **Ulrich** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 2:07 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Vogeljager:
My views, for what they're worth;

A disarm-kill is perfectly legal and very cool if you can pull it off in one movement.

I havn't been to many tournaments. What's the rule on a weaponless opponent? If your opponent loses his weapon for any reason do you get a choice of forcing him/her to yeild or returning the weapon?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In a Tournament, if for any reason your opponent becomes defenseless/weaponless, you must allow him/her to recover their weapon. Regardless of whether their weapon broke, was dropped, or you disarmed them.
We don't strike unarmed/defenseless oponents at tourney. They can of course yeild if they choose to, but thats their choice, not a option you can give them.

that said, If they have a back-up weapon, or a second weapon...well then, thats their ass.

Ulrich

mordreth · Post by **mordreth** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 2:36 pm

I've always operated on the theory that if you have a back up weapon on the field you are armed "continuously", it is similar to a two sword fighter dropping one sword (TS), or a greatswordsman being manovered into a bind situation

Ulrich · Post by **Ulrich** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 2:59 pm

Um, My above post is incorrect. after further digging, the Society Rules specificaly state that you cannot strike a helpless opponent. but in the definition of helpless states that unarmed does not necessarily mean helpless.

the post is right for my kingdom (Meridies) but probably not for all. so check your kingdom marshal's handbook.

sorry for any confusion.

Ulrich

[This message has been edited by Ulrich (edited 10-08-2003).]