Future of SCA fighting

[Amanda M]

You can make a huge amount of your own kit and it doesn't have to look like shit or not work. You just have to put the time in to figure out how it was shaped, why it was shaped that way then be willing to put time and energy into it so it works right. I made half of my own kit with nothing but the most basic tools and a lot of research. It's a total fallacy that you have to be a hot stick or have a ton of money to look awesome. I have been told I have one of the best kits in the Northwestern part of Atenveldt and I am basically a noobish fighter still.

Everything I needed to know about how to look like this:



I learned here on the archive.

[Maeryk]

You can make a huge amount of your own kit and it doesn't have to look like shit or not work. You just have to put the time in to figure out how it was shaped, why it was shaped that way then be willing to put time and energy into it so it works right. I made half of my own kit with nothing but the most basic tools and a lot of research. It's a total fallacy that you have to be a hot stick or have a ton of money to look awesome. I have been told I have one of the best kits in the Northwestern part of Atenveldt and I am basically a noobish fighter still.

Everything I needed to know about how to look like this:



I learned here on the archive.

Absolutely you can. but not overnight. Hard work and refinement and time, or a boatload of money and fast..

Even so.. how much does a helm like that run? 500$? more?

If you are one of the people who cannot afford to eat more than ramen, or "can't afford real garb", you can't afford that helmet.

[Cedric Adolphus]

Gorgeous kit, well done!

[Count Johnathan]

I had bullshit for gear when I started. I worked through it. It took some elbow grease and dedication to improve, not cash.

[Amanda M]

The helmet was $750, but I scrimped and saved for six months to be able to afford it. You could replace that helm with a different one without a chain aventail and it would still look good. Same with the gauntlets. A plainer bascinet with a bargrill and a padded aventail would still be a composed look.

I had to sell all my stuff a few years ago when the recession first hit and we were broke as can be. When I finally could start thinking about fighting again I saved for a long time to get the helmet. I traded for the knees/elbows/spaulders and made everything else myself on a shoestring budget with plastic that I covered with fabric. It cost me less than $100 to make. Later when I could afford it I upgraded to leather covered plastic. I put my kit together in bits and pieces but it was worth the effort.

If you can't afford to eat anything other than ramen then focusing on an SCA fighting kit is pretty stupid. But most people who can afford to pay all their bills usually have a few extra dollars floating around that they spend without thinking about.

[CiaranBlackrune]

Absolutely you can. but not overnight. Hard work and refinement and time, or a boatload of money and fast..

Even so.. how much does a helm like that run? 500$? more?

If you are one of the people who cannot afford to eat more than ramen, or "can't afford real garb", you can't afford that helmet.

Hobbies can be expensive and are luxuries. I would argue that if all one can afford to eat is ramen then perhaps they should spend more time improving their quality of life and less time on hobbies.

As far as hobbies go, the SCA is not inexpensive.

[Finnacan]

True, a lot of folks made do when they started, with very little, and the SCA was a barter system of favors and labors. Everybody had at least a tunic or a shirt, a mug and a place to lay their head.

These days though, coming in and looking around, what are new people going to want?
The bare minimums they see on other people.

linen shirt or tunic,
wool tunic or doublet,
chair,
drinking vessel
feast gear
pouch
shoes/boots
belt
legwear...
This before choosing a time period and a persona. We talk new people into natural fibers day one. They wanna be able to sit, drink, eat, carry their valuables and watch.

And that is before trying to get a helm, rattan, a few baskethilts, a sheild, body protection, a gorget...
Or..
A mask, an outfit that passes drop test, a rebated blade with a hilt, gloves.
Or..
A bow, arrows, a quiver.

I'm not saying you need to be making middle class or higher income for the game, but if you don't have regular employment and some disposable cash, the game is gonna suck for awhile, even with friends helping out.

We're prettier than we used to be, we get more accurate every year, we get more pavilions and furnishings, and great kits and clothing - I don't know if I blame a college student for looking at us and saying "Yes!... but not right now."

I can say this - the first time I was shown the specifics of rattan combat, I asked the guy how much I needed to get a basic helm.
He said 60 bucks or so (this was in 1990, simple spun top with sides and a grill). I said, "Ah, so, probably need a job first..."

[Count Johnathan]

Well people need to stop trying to convince new folks that they need to look like they just stepped out of the 14thC when they start. Improvement for most people in the SCA is gradual. It is in the attempt to research and discover and then to emulate that the SCA is "educational". It is pretty DIY and many are willing to help if you just ask and are respectful about the efforts they can afford to offer assistance with.

[St. George]

Absolutely you can. but not overnight. Hard work and refinement and time, or a boatload of money and fast..

Even so.. how much does a helm like that run? 500$? more?

If you are one of the people who cannot afford to eat more than ramen, or "can't afford real garb", you can't afford that helmet.

To be honest, and this is a problem that the SCA has that I simply don't really understand, is that with a few modifications, the Isabella's kit could be done with a great helm. A nice great helm only costs $60-$100, and they look damn good. Too many people, for whatever reason nowadays, refuse to fight in great helms. My bet is I could do a similar looking kit for around $300, maybe $200 (less if I made the stuff), w/a great helm instead of the bascinet.

People just don't want to wear great or barrel helms!

g-

[Maeryk]

Absolutely you can. but not overnight. Hard work and refinement and time, or a boatload of money and fast..

Even so.. how much does a helm like that run? 500$? more?

If you are one of the people who cannot afford to eat more than ramen, or "can't afford real garb", you can't afford that helmet.

To be honest, and this is a problem that the SCA has that I simply don't really understand, is that with a few modifications, the Isabella's kit could be done with a great helm. A nice great helm only costs $60-$100, and they look damn good. Too many people, for whatever reason nowadays, refuse to fight in great helms. My bet is I could do a similar looking kit for around $300, maybe $200 (less if I made the stuff), w/a great helm instead of the bascinet.

People just don't want to wear great or barrel helms!

g-

I can't wear one. I can do a visor with perfs, or a just-legal eyeslot on a visor, but split occular greathelms, I'm utterly blind.

[St. George]

OK well what about 99% of the other people in the SCA?

g-

[Amanda M]

There's plenty of examples of guys doing similar things with their kits on a budget with some DIY attitude here too. Look at all the improvements Varukh made. All you have to do is cruise the various post your kit threads to see how every six months or so people are making improvements, often on a budget or by making stuff themselves.

[Maeryk]

OK well what about 99% of the other people in the SCA?

g-

Dunno.. maybe the bascinet is their vision of a "knight in shining armor" and a barrel helm isn't.

I don't know why they don't all wear kitty pajamas, honestly.

[Amanda M]

Absolutely you can. but not overnight. Hard work and refinement and time, or a boatload of money and fast..

Even so.. how much does a helm like that run? 500$? more?

If you are one of the people who cannot afford to eat more than ramen, or "can't afford real garb", you can't afford that helmet.

To be honest, and this is a problem that the SCA has that I simply don't really understand, is that with a few modifications, the Isabella's kit could be done with a great helm. A nice great helm only costs $60-$100, and they look damn good. Too many people, for whatever reason nowadays, refuse to fight in great helms. My bet is I could do a similar looking kit for around $300, maybe $200 (less if I made the stuff), w/a great helm instead of the bascinet.

People just don't want to wear great or barrel helms!

g-

I can't wear one. I can do a visor with perfs, or a just-legal eyeslot on a visor, but split occular greathelms, I'm utterly blind.

You can get a bascinet with a bargrill from Hjalmr for pretty cheap. Or even a kettle hat.

[Kilkenny]

As far as hobbies go, the SCA is not inexpensive.

Did you really mean to say that the SCA is a "not inexpensive" hobby?

As compared to what? Because I think it is pretty easy to make the case that the SCA is a relatively inexpensive hobby when compared to quite a number of other options out there.

And yeah, it's probably more expensive than parkour (sp?), but it's easy to find many hobbies that run more than SCA - lots more.

[St. George]

And yeah, it's probably more expensive than parkour (sp?), but it's easy to find many hobbies that run more than SCA - lots more.

Well, as a hobby, Parkour certainly would... run more... than the SCA would probably LOTS more

g-

[Aaron]

I miss my great helm somedays. Yeah, those flat surfaces meant any shot would stick, but man I felt safe in that tank. Great helms are great IMO. It says so right in the name!

Runners spend a lot of money on shoes, races, etc... That's running, a simple sport. I paid $120 to run the Baltimore marathon. Yes I paid MORE than I would have spent on a nice hotel, with a good breakfast and a nice dinner out with my wife and kids AFTER we went to an event. Never again. I run just for fun now and don't worry too much about where I'm going or the time, unless it's the APFT (that's the job).

The number of ski-boats I see just sitting around are legion in Fort Collins.

My next inexpensive hobby will be gardening when I retire. A full contact sport, but only with the dirt. And yes, I know people here will complain about the style, impact to the knees, output, etc...

The SCA can be inexpensive but you have to chose your battles. I go to local practices when I can, and events if they are an hour away or less.

And a GOOD suit in the SCA will become cheaper as the society ages. People will retire from the sport but want their armour to go and fight on. If you look at the classified section here on the Archive, prices are dropping almost in free-fall IMO. Pick up a used suit that looks REALLY good for REALLY cheap prices. If I were getting in to fight now, it would be great.

Pick up a used suit CHEAP and have some fun!

-Aaron

-Aaron

[Saritor]

Well, as a hobby, Parkour certainly would... run more... than the SCA would probably LOTS more

Now, imagine a full parkour-enabled charge at a shield wall at Estrella.

[CiaranBlackrune]

As far as hobbies go, the SCA is not inexpensive.

Did you really mean to say that the SCA is a "not inexpensive" hobby?

As compared to what? Because I think it is pretty easy to make the case that the SCA is a relatively inexpensive hobby when compared to quite a number of other options out there.

And yeah, it's probably more expensive than parkour (sp?), but it's easy to find many hobbies that run more than SCA - lots more.

Yes I did. And I stand by it. Unless you want to look like crap you are going to spend money, time and effort. If you want to really be involved in this hobby you are going to spend even more money.

Is it inexpensive compared to some other hobbies? Yes, but that doesn't make it an inexpensive hobby. And personally, I don't compare it to motor sports/hobbies which to me, are a whole other class of hobby, a rich mans hobby. I don't see the SCA as a rich mans hobby, but I don't see it as inexpensive either.

[Baron Alcyoneus]

And yeah, it's probably more expensive than parkour (sp?), but it's easy to find many hobbies that run more than SCA - lots more.

Well, as a hobby, Parkour certainly would... run more... than the SCA would probably LOTS more

g-

Are we including medical bills?

[Tibbie Croser]

Ewen, glad to hear your experiences were not in Atlantia. But if you're living in Ponte Alto, why is your schlager gathering dust? Go to the Ponte Alto rapier practice. There are so many good fencers in your barony and northern Atlantia; take advantage of them. If you still want to give up rapier permanently, someone would certainly buy your gear.

Duke Alaric, the critical comments about Caidan fencers were from Frau Hirsch; I think she's in the San Diego area.

[Saritor]

Are we including medical bills?

You weren't using those knees anyway.

[St. George]

Duke Alaric, the critical comments about Caidan fencers were from Frau Hirsch; I think she's in the San Diego area.

Thank you, I know. I know her and her husband as well.

My experience with Caidan fencers will likely be very different, as a few of them were very good friends of mine from the day I moved out there, and then I was King.

g-

[Kilkenny]

As far as hobbies go, the SCA is not inexpensive.

[/quote]

Did you really mean to say that the SCA is a "not inexpensive" hobby?

As compared to what? Because I think it is pretty easy to make the case that the SCA is a relatively inexpensive hobby when compared to quite a number of other options out there.

And yeah, it's probably more expensive than parkour (sp?), but it's easy to find many hobbies that run more than SCA - lots more.[/quote]
Yes I did. And I stand by it. Unless you want to look like crap you are going to spend money, time and effort. If you want to really be involved in this hobby you are going to spend even more money.

Is it inexpensive compared to some other hobbies? Yes, but that doesn't make it an inexpensive hobby. And personally, I don't compare it to motor sports/hobbies which to me, are a whole other class of hobby, a rich mans hobby. I don't see the SCA as a rich mans hobby, but I don't see it as inexpensive either.[/quote]

heh. All things are relative. Without context it's meaningless to label something "expensive" or otherwise. One can do SCA without spending a great deal of money on it and not "look like crap" - unless, of course, people evaluate your appearance based on your receipts

But this sort of perception is almost entirely subjective. Just for example, exactly what motor sports are you defining as a "rich man's hobby" ? I really doubt the guy around the corner from me with the funny car and the top fuel dragsters, the trailer for same and the motorhome is rich. He wouldn't be living where he is if he were. I do believe he has a load of money invested in that gear though...enough that I suspect he makes it pay for itself somehow, so maybe it isn't his hobby.

Anyway, as far as complaints that the SCA will die off because of the price tag - it's every bit as likely that we'll grow for the same reason - our price tag is lower than many other hobbies and people cutting back could step down to us.

[St. George]

I made a bad running pun in reference to parkour running more than the SCA. I'm sorry

[Count Johnathan]

It's cheaper than paintball. More fun too.

[Kilkenny]

I made a bad running pun in reference to parkour running more than the SCA. I'm sorry

chuckle.. I caught it.. I just kept moving past the obstacle.

I have to admit, if "parkour" had been something recognized forty years ago, the SCA might never have seen me And the emergency room would no doubt have seen much more of me!

[Maeryk]

It's cheaper than paintball. More fun too.

Erm.. I can do a full paintball outfit for 200$..

my helm cost 3x that.

[Count Johnathan]

game fees, paint, guns etc... it adds up. Most SCA gear is a one time or every so many years purchase.

[Duke Areus]

It's cheaper than paintball. More fun too.

I was just gonna say that Johno.

When me and Karhu were playing paintball regularly, I was spending upwards of $100 every time we played. Not too horrible until you consider we were playing twice a week. Then add in my gun, which after all of the mods I did ended up about $1500 and my pads, jerseys, masks, etc add another $500.



Now compare that to my armour. I spent $100 on my first helm. The rest of my armour I built out of pickle barrel and assorted recycled armour bits. That was before I met Casca. Now, I have 3 helmets, and can readily put on at least 4 different kits. Since that $100 the only money I have spent on SCA armour is buying metal to build more armour and pads/gloves.

I'm not going to mention the amount of money I have spent on D&D and video games over my lifetime.

All in all, SCA Fighting has been far more inexpensive than any of my other hobbies.

[olaf haraldson]

My first fighting kit cost under $100, complete with helmet. My first paintball marker alone cost that. I then quickly realized that where paintball got expensive was paint.

It's cheaper than paintball. More fun too.

Erm.. I can do a full paintball outfit for 200$..

my helm cost 3x that.

[raito]

All in all, SCA Fighting has been far more inexpensive than any of my other hobbies.

The amount I've spent on gas dwarfs the amount I've spent on 'stuff'.

[Duke Areus]

All in all, SCA Fighting has been far more inexpensive than any of my other hobbies.

The amount I've spent on gas dwarfs the amount I've spent on 'stuff'.

True, very true!!

[shinyhalo]

Thanks for the ideas. I have purchased some stuff from reputable and disreputable sources. I'll try to give my experience with your ideas because I have tried them already.

Lamellar. I made one of these tunics. It looks great. I have tried three different lacing methods. Horizontals tight, verticals loose. All tight. All loose. The problem is it just won't hold up in a war against someone as strong as me (and the sad truth is that there are a lot of people stronger than me). The lamellae bend inward too much under a man's strength. Period. I don't care how awesome someone thinks their lamellar is. Even a half strength thrust with a 2" head spear can crack those ribs through it. I'd use it for screwing around or one vs one vs a 1-H sword, but I wouldn't fight a 2Hander sword with it. Clavicles go bye bye.

Hockey stuff fits great and functions great. I have some of it too. The torso stuff I can hide easily. But...I can't even imagine how to hide full hockey arms without overheating from so many layers or restricting my movement from garb-over-armor syndrome and frankly garb-over-armor looks awful. I don't need to look fucking awesome, but I'd to look good.

Aluminum is ok. Just ok. I have a ton of it. Repeated blows to aluminum turn it into mush. Really, it's fascinating. I have an aluminum shield that makes people cringe because it's so warped. It's not a good long term solution, but it's a good rigid material for coming up with prototypes and patterns.

Wearing pants over armor...heh. This is a problem for Florida. Here is how it breaks down. Clothing over armor blocks airflow, weighs, and provides zero padding. Then comes the hard shell under it adding weight, more airflow restriction, and still zero padding. So then you add padding, adding more airflow restriction and a nice layer of insulation. So you look like a pillsbury dough boy and dehydrate. There are some garb-over-armor combos that are passable. Like stripped down old-school lacross shoulders, but even they give people that football player look.

Gorgets are pretty easy. I've got this good. The neck doesn't get whipped around as fast as the arms AND it has stops at either end of it.

The slash guards are interesting, but difficult to hide. I have arms figured out though. I have come to the conclusion that a steel elbow cop attached to both a wide-splint vambrace and a sticky rerbrace is the best. By sticky I mean that the material is soft and adheres and wedges itself into the flesh so the whole thing doesn't come flying off when you swing.

Like I said before, I am close to a good kit for Florida, but thanks for the ideas.

To get a good functioning kit, you just need to not buy junk, and certainly not buy what the "average" fighter is using, because they don't know good armor, let alone what works well.

Buy lamellar (aluminum will work well) and leather to trim edge and strap it with. Sew it up with paracord. Trim it with leather to make it fit well, and cover your collar bone, shoulder, etc as needed.

Buy a set of field hockey shin guards to go under your boots, pants, or whatever.

Get a set of simple aluminum legs like #825 here http://bokalosarmoury.com/legs.htm

Wear pants over the legs and shin guards.

Get a simple gorget in stainless your choice from a bunch of places as to style and fit.

get a set of elbows like these here: http://www.sportstop.com/Mens-Lacrosse- ... bow-Guards choose for fit and style

Wear a nice long sleeved shirt over everything.

get a set of simple vambraces or slash guards like these: http://search.sportstop.com/#view=grid& ... ction=desc

get the norman stainless helmet here: http://www.ironmongerarmory.com/index.php?p=helms

And you are in business. That is a quality protective suit that you can win a Crown in, and still look pretty decent if you make the shirt and pants look nice, and add some winnegas (sp?).

g-

[Angusm0628]

Depending on far your driving if you're on board or off board. An SCA weekend in itself can be $100 without batting an eye..
Gas $50
Site Fee $20 per head (I have three in my family) Add 8 per if "On Board"
Beer $20 +/-
Ice and Food $50 If a camping event and not on board Subtract if "On board"
This