The Armour Archive

Your Grace,
I see what you are sayign, and agree with points, but not all.
Firstly, and mostly, on the point of socializing.
If they person wants to join based soley on the socialization aspect, then there is a good chance they will not be/ or remain being a heavy list fighter.
It takes away from thier social time

adding:
And we all know, and have seen those people. They are the ones who show up to practice every week, but hardly ever armor up. They always have a "reason" for not doing it either. They stand and talk, and laugh, and bring friends, who stand and talk and laugh. And a grand time is had by all. But while you might have more people at a practice, you still have the same ammount of participants.
And I do not mean to belittle those who actually DO have a reason.

@ Ewan, half our practice is indoor, the second half of the year is at a public park.

MJBlazek wrote:Your Grace,
I see what you are sayign, and agree with points, but not all.
Firstly, and mostly, on the point of socializing.
If they person wants to join based soley on the socialization aspect, then there is a good chance they will not be/ or remain being a heavy list fighter.
It takes away from thier social time

I disagree. There are a few things I see there differently:

1) if they see that fighting will enhance their socialization, i.e. being a Knight or King will get them more girls

2) If the group they like socializing with is otherwise fighter based that is what they will do. We see the same with people who end up fencing, brewing, sewing whatever because that is what their friends do.

g-

If I want to dress up in armour and hit people, there are many other organizations that I can do it in. The SCA has a huge social aspect. The social aspect of the SCA is what keeps me coming back.

being a Knight or King MIGHT get them more girls. A Scrub in Armor is still a Scrub

Sure, but we all start as scrubs, but being a fighter (as opposed to not) might open the right doors to more opportunity. The same would go for any activity: dance, brewing, sewing, or whatever- if the activity opens social opportunity someone might do it. If it continues to open that door, they will stay with it.

g-

There is a huge social aspect to fighting. I find it akin to my rugby days - no matter what team you played on, what position, if you played 8s or Nations, you PLAYED. You were part of a "brotherhood" who played the game.

Same with SCA fighting - regardless if the other guy is East Kingdom or Midrealm, Tuchux or Calontiri, two weapon guy or sword and shield specialist, super duke or the "In the shield wall for 10 years and happy with it" - we've all experienced a lot of the same things - and it something most of the "real world" just doesn't get.

.

There is a social aspect to fighting. But to be part of that aspect you still have to WANT to fight.
If somosne is ONLY, and I mena ONLY, coming to socialize. then they probably arent doing anything else.
thats what I am talkign about. Those (how ever few they may be in some place) who ONLY come to socialize.
This may be a difference in gepgraphical location. But I see at any number of events people who show up ONLY to talk to thier friends, not to fight.

Well, yeah - those people are important to the SCA too. They tend to be the cooks, brewers, woodworkers, bards, etc... Doing all the things most fighters don't have time or interest to do.

Those who get it, get it. Those who don't, probably never will.

.

I suppose I am not being clear. When I say they are ONLY there to socialize.. they indeed are ONLY in the SCA to socialize. They show up to events, and drink.
NO fighting, no cooking, no anything....

I have to say, if a girl based their opinion of me and our relationship on the basis of skill at rattan fighting I'd be running for the hills as fast as I could from them.

MJBlazek wrote:I suppose I am not being clear. When I say they are ONLY there to socialize.. they indeed are ONLY in the SCA to socialize. They show up to events, and drink.
NO fighting, no cooking, no anything....

Do you know what they do outside of events? I know very few people who "just" socialize in the SCA.

And does it really matter?

Been there, bought the track shoes.

Leo Medii wrote:I have to say, if a girl based their opinion of me and our relationship on the basis of skill at rattan fighting I'd be running for the hills as fast as I could from them.

Yes, yes I do know what they (at least those in my area) do outside of events

If this is a discussion of the "future" of any activity in the SCA then you must factor those who do not participate in an activity.
What happens when the scale is tipped and there are more "Socializers" then there are "Participants?"

I don't know.... Same thing that happens now? People go to events, do their thing, whatever that thing is - then go home?


.

you don't see anything wrong with a downward spiral of more work for fewer people willing to steop up and do it?
Even Count Jonathan must see the danger in that.

MJBlazek wrote:Yes, yes I do know what they (at least those in my area) do outside of events

If this is a discussion of the "future" of any activity in the SCA then you must factor those who do not participate in an activity.
What happens when the scale is tipped and there are more "Socializers" then there are "Participants?"

What happens when there are more Blank then there are Blank?

I have heard this somewhere...

More Fencers than Heavies? More CA than Spearmen?

MJBlazek wrote:you don't see anything wrong with a downward spiral of more work for fewer people willing to steop up and do it?
Even Count Jonathan must see the danger in that.

Page, what.. three or four? There will always (apparently) be enough people who are simply in awe of the Heavies and Crowns to "make it happen" for them. The rest of the populace can dry up and blow away, because Rattan combat is the central activity of the SCA, always has been, always will be.

I haven't seen any sign of that happening - seem that there is always someone interested in "running" the event, pleanty of marshals, etc... At least in my area.

So what do you do? Tell people "You can't attend unless you DO something"? Seems a bit counter-intuitive to growing the SCA.

.

I already see it happening min my area. A NEW Shire. There are a core group of us that do everything. And those who only come to "hang out." Well some of that "core" are already starting to show signs of burnout, after 2 years, becuase no one is stepping up to help.

I cannot appropriately express my thoughts on this board at the moment. Being at work, and getting constantly interrupted. I will try to formulate them better and put them up when I get home.

80 - 20 rule.

80% of the work by 20% of the people. If you look back, I'll bet that has almost ALWAYS been the case.

That isn't limited to JUST the SCA, I'm afraid.

MJBlazek wrote:I already see it happening min my area. A NEW Shire. There are a core group of us that do everything. And those who only come to "hang out." Well some of that "core" are already starting to show signs of burnout, after 2 years, becuase no one is stepping up to help.

MJBlazek wrote:I already see it happening min my area. A NEW Shire. There are a core group of us that do everything. And those who only come to "hang out." Well some of that "core" are already starting to show signs of burnout, after 2 years, becuase no one is stepping up to help.

Maybe your group, like so many others in the SCA from Kingdoms on down, should never have been created. We don't need more groups.

Also, events don't take a ton of people to run. Someone will always step forward to do that because they enjoy it.

g-

If you don't need more groups, how do you get new members in areas where there is no local group?

MJBlazek wrote:If you don't need more groups, how do you get new members in areas where there is no local group?

Easy.. they'll drive two hours to get to meetings, practices, etc.. right?

If I had to drive 2 hours down and two hours back every Tuesday for practice, I, 1: Could not afford to do it. 2: would get very tired of doing it fairly quickly.
And my wife might leave me too

People can hang out with having to be an official "group." Our tendency is to award too much too often for too little, and create new areas of governance and bureaucracy when there is no need to, or perhaps even a fat tail detriment in doing so.

Just last night a number of us were talking about how when we joined about 20 years ago, it was impressive if someone had an AoA let along a GoA, and if a Knight showed up for a tournament it was a big deal. Now we have 5 awards for fighting and a bunch for each other area of pursuit in this Kingdom, let alone the Baronial and other ones that exist.

Our aging population is getting awards fat.

g-

We have 6 active fighters, 2 Caligraphers, A cook, a Master Archer and an active Equestrian. All of which also hold an officiating position.
Then we have probaly 5 more dabblers, and then 10 people aho do nothing but "hang out."
Those 16 (active and dabblers) people are a great addition to the SCA. Those other 10 would be no great loss to the SCA.
If a local shire was not created at least 10 of those 16 would NOT be inthe SCA.

*Adding The Highest Awards that are held so far in our shire are The Master Archer, and a Queens Order of Chivalry.

Very few people here even have thier AoA


*edited again to fix my math *

Why did you have to form a shire to get those people in the SCA? Couldn't you instead just hold local A&S nights, practices, and social gatherings without the need to form a group? You can have several population centers within a group without the need for everyone to separate into their own groups and duplicate all the paperwork.

Leo Medii wrote:I have to say, if a girl based their opinion of me and our relationship on the basis of skill at rattan fighting I'd be running for the hills as fast as I could from them.

A lot of ladies have told me that it makes them feel good to be around somebody who can "kick ass" as it were. That's a pretty universal girl thing. They like the feeling that the man they are around can protect them if needed. That's just an instinctual aspect of most females. It doesn't matter what type of fighting or sport that the man might participate in. They like seeing their man dominate others. I'm guessing your wife thinks the sports and the jousting you do are cool and it probably makes her feel a little warm and fuzzy to see you kick the hell out of another man every once in a while.

Count Johnathan wrote:

Leo Medii wrote:I have to say, if a girl based their opinion of me and our relationship on the basis of skill at rattan fighting I'd be running for the hills as fast as I could from them.

A lot of ladies have told me that it makes them feel good to be around somebody who can "kick ass" as it were. That's a pretty universal girl thing. They like the feeling that the man they are around can protect them if needed. That's just an instinctual aspect of most females. It doesn't matter what type of fighting or sport that the man might participate in. They like seeing their man dominate others. I'm guessing your wife thinks the sports and the jousting you do are cool and it probably makes her feel a little warm and fuzzy to see you kick the hell out of another man every once in a while.

"HELP! HELP!"

"Wait.. let me get my armor and my stick so I can kick ass!."

Chris G. wrote:Why did you have to form a shire to get those people in the SCA? Couldn't you instead just hold local A&S nights, practices, and social gatherings without the need to form a group? You can have several population centers within a group without the need for everyone to separate into their own groups and duplicate all the paperwork.

I wanted to form a Canton or a Riding.
The populace felt that they were too far away from the hubs of the neighboring Shires.
They went forward with forming a shire.

Leo Medii wrote:I have to say, if a girl based their opinion of me and our relationship on the basis of skill at rattan fighting I'd be running for the hills as fast as I could from them.

You're not supposed to have a "relationship" with them.

Maeryk wrote:

Count Johnathan wrote:

Leo Medii wrote:I have to say, if a girl based their opinion of me and our relationship on the basis of skill at rattan fighting I'd be running for the hills as fast as I could from them.

A lot of ladies have told me that it makes them feel good to be around somebody who can "kick ass" as it were. That's a pretty universal girl thing. They like the feeling that the man they are around can protect them if needed. That's just an instinctual aspect of most females. It doesn't matter what type of fighting or sport that the man might participate in. They like seeing their man dominate others. I'm guessing your wife thinks the sports and the jousting you do are cool and it probably makes her feel a little warm and fuzzy to see you kick the hell out of another man every once in a while.

"HELP! HELP!"

"Wait.. let me get my armor and my stick so I can kick ass!."

Well my idea is similar to His Excellencies, but completely different and not limited to one of the sexes.

People are attracted to confidence. Fighters in the SCA who do well on the lists are typically fairly confident, at least within the context of the game. They are good at what they do, and know it. If you are not a COMPELTE prick, this confidence is going to attract people to you, both male and female.

The protection thing? I dunna know. Possible. We are a social species, if there is truth I again doubt it will fall strictly on women to want to feel protected. People are not and as far as I know have never been organized into a community of a single male.