The Armour Archive

There is a video series that Duke Sean did while teaching here in An Tir. One of the things he's mentioned is "Training, Practice and Evaluation". Training being what you do at the your fighter practice, practice being what you do when you are at home and evaluation being Tourneys etc.

Do any of you follow this sort of method? If so, how many practice and training days a week do you do? Do you go to practices outside of your local ones?

What kinds of drills do you work on regularly?

Duke Sean talked about un-armored training as well. How much un-armored training do you do?

Here is the series in case you are not aware of them. Very good information.

Part 1 - http://youtu.be/NLAcki5I57c
Part 2 - http://youtu.be/NmmVVAV-KXE
Part 3 - http://youtu.be/QgFvrTLaw1I
Part 4 - http://youtu.be/Ah0Fhtwmgc8
Part 5 - http://youtu.be/fMc4mj5uki4
Part 6 - http://youtu.be/BlRT_iZHaiY
Part 7 - http://youtu.be/1hA3jiBF0yI
Part 8 - http://youtu.be/k_HH-9mEiFY
Part 9 - http://youtu.be/jEkGlgYql80


Tasia

Post videos of YOUR fights, even against the pell if you must. That is an easy way for people to comment. A duke's skill at arms is not really a question here IMO, but we might be able to help you.

-Aaron

I was asking more what kind of schedules you guys have - do you incorporate days of practice outside of training? If so, how many days do you go to fighter practice and how many training days do you have? And what kind of drills do you do?

The videos I posted are his his teaching videos that I thought may be of interest especially to new fighters.

I'm not at the point of getting comment on my fighting yet (but close!). I'll have my armor fixed up by this Thursday's armor workshop and my Windrose shield should be shipping out tomorrow. Then I'll be able to film my own practicing.

But again, I'm interested in the time people put toward their training. Especially in light of a thread I spent reading last night about the 10,000 shots and 500-600 practices theories. I'd like to know especially what the higher level fighters do to add toward their skill.

Thanks,

Tasia

I fight every chance I can, I practice every chance I can, I train in the gym 5 days a week. I travel to many different practices outside of my area. I only do peel work with my squires at my house, I do not do peel work alone anymore. You get out of it what you put into it. Do the work, reap the rewards.

My Motto; Amat victoria curam. Victory favors those who take the pains!

Thor-

Thank you Thor. I was reading earlier discussions about gym work being important to training too. I also read that going to various practices was a good thing, but I was curious as to how many others did this too.

Tasia

I hit the gym 2-4 days a week. Intervals and weights and footwork drills between sets
Practice once a week right now: Slow work, 1st blood drill, technique drill & sparring
I was doing pell work up until I did some damage to my elbow at a tournament.

When I started I practiced 2-3 times a week. Now I do less. I am lazy. I am also not a Duke.

I agree, you get out what you put in.

To answer your question about Duke Sean's videos

Sort of. Recently we started adding a drill technique to the practice. That would be his Training component.
We do sparring at the end: His practice
And of course we fight tournaments: His evaluation

I do not train in the gym for SCA, I started Bodybuilding for me! I know how it can help you/generic to achieve a fighting shape. Fighting IS a sport, all athletes weight train to some extent. Fitting the programs to the activity is important.

Thor-

P.S. I sent you a request, just so you know it was me, and no hard feelings if it's not approved.

liviatasia wrote:Thank you Thor. I was reading earlier discussions about gym work being important to training too. I also read that going to various practices was a good thing, but I was curious as to how many others did this too.

Tasia

I wouldn't deny a request from you! I really like what you have to say.

Thanks Ogedei. What is the 1st blood drill?

In general if I am on my ideal schedule it looks like this:

Tue-gym, Wed-practice, Thur-gym, Sat/Sun- event or practice. Mondays and Fridays are my recovery days.

The gym workout is geared towards helping my fighting however I started going to the gym mainly for weight loss. I do weights for my arms and shoulders that work in fighting motions, I also work on my core muscles since that is a) where the fat is anyway and b) where our power should come from. I then work on the stationary bike for cardio (because my knees are too shot to run anymore) again more for weight/fat loss than SCA worries but it still caries over and helps.

granted alot of the time Real Life <tm> gets in the way of this schedule.

regards
ThorvaldR

Thanks for the example! That's sort of what I am trying to figure out. I did join a gym and have two days a week for training but right now it's mostly range of motion work to ease into working with weights.

I'm doing slow work until I get my armor fitted correctly. Then I need to come up with sone sort of schedule. Luckily I live in an area where there is a practice that happens just about any day of the week so I'll have a lot of chances in that regard.

I really need to build up stamina so I've been trying to do some reading up on just how to go about that.

Liviatasia,

just keep going at it. The stamina will come. Some days are better than others.

I hope so! That and working on up body strength. Although when you mentioned working your core muscles that got me to thinking. You mean stomach muscles correct?

BTW - what part of Germany are you from? I was born in Wurzburg.

I am an American working in Germany.

As for core, yes I mean stomach, lower back, and obliques.

1st blood is a warm-up drill. We picked it up from HG Owain and HE Alden out of Ramsgaard. It is done as a line drill and fought till someone is struck anywhere: head, leg, arms

The line drill format can be used for most drills, again taken from HG Owain and HE Alden.

If you have 4 fighters:
-Fighter 1 holds the field. Fighters 2, 3 & 4 line up.
-Fighter 2 fights fighter 1 and then goes to the end of the line
-Fighter 3 fights fighter 1 and then goes to the end of the line
-Fighter 4 fights fighter 1 and then goes to the end of the line
-Fighter 2 is now up to fight fighter 1 again, but since they already have, fighter 2 takes the field and fighter 1 goes to the end of the line
Repeat until fighter 4 has held the field against everyone.

HG Thorvaldr response on core is critical. You can't think of it as simply your stomach muscles, it is a whole chain of muscles that are utilized, the actual "ab" muscles themselves don't contribute to power generation beyond their role as a stabilizer. The whole chain is important. So don't just do "crunches" (I wouldn't do them at all) or planks, but be sure to include rotational work as well as lifts like squats etc.

As for stamina: Fighting will improve it. Fighting once a week isn't going to do much, but if you are dedicated and fight lots I am sure it will. As I mentioned previously I only get to one practice proper and at it we cover a lot, which leaves maybe 30-45 mins for sparring. Simply going to the gym and working out will help. Cardio will help some, but I personally don't believe it is ideally suited for what we do.

We do engage in fights, especially at the higher levels that might required a longer amount of endurance and certainly at practices where we are going for multiple fights, but really the core of what we do is the opposite of cardio, even the long fights are punctuated by short bursts of intense activity. This is why I believe an interval aproach is better.

My current treadmill routine is based around 1/4 miles. Which I am only doing once a week right now (SHAME ON ME).
.5 mile @ 4mph (warmup)
.25 mile @ 7-8mph
.25 mile @ 4mph
.25 mile @ 7-8mph
.... etc
Physical ability will adjust those speeds for you. It should not be easy.

I generally have the ability to out last most people at our practice and was asked the other day how I regulated my breathing, so I didn't get tired.

I can't express my agreement enough with HG Thorstenn, all athletes weight train to some extent.
I need to do more.

Thank you for the treadmill routine. The 1st Blood sounds cool. I've done the bear pit - I think that's what they call it where you line up against a fighter and everyone fights until someone beats him and then takes his place and then we all fight that guy until someone beats him and so on.

I actually won a round once. I was so shocked my first guy bonked me on the head but I was still excited over that win.

Thank you everyone for the input. A lot of things I had not considered and will adjust my program to fit them in.

Don't get hung up on the treadmill aspect, it was just an idea.

Find a field, measure off a distance from a goal post, put a marker. Walk back. SPRINT from the post to the marker, walk back. Repeat.

Find a hill. Sprint to the top, walk back down. repeat
etc.

I have to be careful of my knees. I was going to use your treadmill info and transfer it to the gym bike and maybe my riding bike. Then when I get the muscles around my knees built up nice and strong move to jogging.

When I was at my prime, I "practiced" in Sean's terms once a week. I "evaluated" almost every week (and probably could count many of those "evaluations" as also having a "practice" element, since I hardly ever fought where I didn't get pick-ups in with somebody outside any tourney that was going on). I "trained" every day, every idle minute that wasn't actively doing something else, I was training for SCA fighting. Have to ride the elevator? While waiting and riding, I would think about fighting, even work through motions if I had the elevator to myself. Commute time? Training time - thinking about fighting, running past fights through my mind and evaluating what did, or did not, work and how to improve.

When your body is trained in the motions, it becomes possible for you to accomplish an astonishing amount of "training" just thinking about what you want to do and how you can achieve it.

It's absolutely true that ours is one of the explosive sports where recovery is as critical as anything else. I suggest you look into "Tabbata Intervals" - it's a training/conditioning technique that produces remarkable results very efficiently. I've been left hardly able to stand after only four minutes (not that I'm in great shape, but, you know, 4 minutes ?! )

Thank you Gavin I'll check that out. I know what you mean about thinking of fighting. I think about it so much I often dream about it.

Livia,

Cardio and conditioning appear to be majorly-overlooked areas of training in SCA heavy combat, and I am glad you are planning to take it seriously.

First off, I recommend getting yourself a pedometer ($3 on ebay) and making a point to do 10,000 steps a day, whether it be walking, running, etc. Add strength training to that 3x per week (at the gym if you can, or with equipment at home).

Worst case scenario and you don't have gym membership or equipment at home, there are some great strength training exercises that incorporate just your own body weight (PM me if you'd like me to share a few)

My personal training regimen is to do a 3 mile run or 5 mile bike ride each morning (alternating) before work, and power workouts at the gym 3x per week. I do Yoga once a week, which is great for core strength, flexibility and resilience, and tennis 1-2 times a week (great cardio, coordination, plus you have a stick in your hand )

Keep in mind I don't train for SCA combat specifically, but I do find that being in great shape pays huge dividends in every aspect of SCA combat, from landing that flat snap before the opponent's shield can pick it off, to having enough stamina to wear down a particularly tough foe, to chuckling instead of screaming at that shot that catches you in the back of the thighs.

Film study and visualization are great training aides for SCA combat, and the very best way to improve your prowess is, of course, just to fight as often as you can. Be the first to start fighting and the last to finish, if you at all can.

Kilkenny wrote:It's absolutely true that ours is one of the explosive sports where recovery is as critical as anything else. I suggest you look into "Tabbata Intervals" - it's a training/conditioning technique that produces remarkable results very efficiently. I've been left hardly able to stand after only four minutes (not that I'm in great shape, but, you know, 4 minutes ?! )

I and several other have discussed Tabata Intervals many times here on the archive.
They achieve that which no other exercise protocol can, namely drastically improve both aerobic and anaerobic conditioning at the same time.

They can be done running, on a bike, just about any activity that will allow you the high intensity required. I like to do them on my exercise bike that also uses arm motion, that way my whole body is involved like in fighting. The protocol is simple, 20 seconds at 100% output and 10 seconds rest. This is one interval. Aim for 8 or 9 intervals. You probably will not be getting up to 8 intervals for a while. Don't lower the intensity in order to complete more intervals. Doing 4 or 5 hard intervals is much better than doing 8 or 9 low intensity intervals. In fact if you are able to do 9 or 10 then you aren't doing the first 8 hard enough. Also don't alter the 20 on / 10 off, lots of research has shown that these are the "Magic Numbers".

They are not for the faint of heart. When asked "If this protocol is so effective why aren't more people doing the?" Dr. Tabata responded "They hurt, it takes a highly motivated person to do these with the intensity required to be effective." Some trainers say that if after the last interval you are not lying on the floor trying your best not to puke, you are not pushing hard enough.

This is where you get the general warning about checking with your doctor...
This is especially true for Tabata intervals due to their extreme high intensity nature.
Those with high blood pressure, heart issues, etc. should avoid these.

Tom

They are not for the faint of heart.

I've found there can be a significant amount of variation in the training and conditioning regimes of successful SCA combatants. (Almost as much variation as there are definitions of success).

Because of the wide variety of body types, equipment and styles, you may have to play with a different combinations to get best results. And what you need to train can change with time.

For years (5+) I went to 3 practices a week plus events. I also did the gym and running on the side. I did ok, but I think my fighting quickly reached a plateau in there where I should have changed things up. I enjoyed the process, but from a training perspective I should have changed things up significantly after the results didn't improve.

Prior to going back to school, I cut back on the practices significantly, but I spent time every day at moderate to slow work against imaginary opponents. My tourney fighting results improved significantly. Strangely I remained the underwhelming melee fighter I had always been.

I don't know the details of Tabata intervals, but it sounds similar to the 60/120s we don in the Army. Sprints almost, they are very good for you and more relevant to SCA cardio than just general cardio. 60 seconds run/sprint 120 seconds jog/walk, you can set a time or distance goal, and you can start it with 30/60s when you are just starting out. When I had a track, I would do 1/4 mile sprints for 3 miles or so, 1/4 mile of sprinting 1/2 mile of jog, the track makes it easy to gauge distance. It's all about intervals to train up that burst of cardio we need for fighting, engage/disengage, ya know? Throw in a day of steady distance running, and you have a very well rounded cardio workout.

I want to agree with/reiterate the core workout as well, but I'd like to mention fighting style along with this as well. The regional differences in fighting style might lend itself to using more arm and less core, I believe AnTir fights like this, but I can't say for 100% certain. When you start your shot, it should begin in your hips, not your shoulders, or you are just going to kill your arm and shoulder in the long run. Not to mention all those core muscles just sitting there, not getting used. In my case, I know when I fail to use my core as much as I should when I fight, as I have skinny arms so if I don't use my abs, most of my shots hit light.

As for my workout schedule, I am at the gym 5-6 days a week right now and don't fight because I'm deployed, but I do try to focus on back, shoulders, and core to help my fighting muscles when I get home. I can't wait to get back in to my armor.

Caveat, I am not a great fighter, I like to classify myself as a professional newbie, so take my advice as you will. I do however know a little bit about training like a warrior, and training like it may save my life some day, so there is that. General fitness will help you stay alive longer, as long as you train like you mean it, and stick to it no matter how you feel that day.

Just my 2c.



Marcus

As much psychological as physical training: I like to have a sword in my hand every day (actually 2, a real sword and an SCA sword) - even if it's just throwing a quick combo on the pell on my way out the door, I want that sword in my hand every day.

I use a real sword for slow work on the pell, partially to check my edge orientation but mostly for the psychological effect of having a real sword in my hand. After slow work with the real sword, I pick up my plastic pell stick and ramp up the speed and power. As I say, this can be as little as one combo (once slow with the real sword and once fast with the plastic) if time won't allow more, but I try to at least run through the 1-6 drill once with each weapon.

I've been a fat boy since I quit the swimming team in high school, but in my 20s I still had good cardio and upper body strength to go with that spare tire - now I'm just fat. I've realized I will probably never self-motivate to get my ass to the gym alone, so starting this fall I will be taking a fitness class at the local community college.

Liviatasia,

Take a look at the new papers I've posted on my website. Most of them are concerned with training. Ask me some questions as you go.

Regards,

Thanks everyone. Exactly the information I was looking for. I did not realize the high importance of the core muscles. I'll pass this on to my trainer and physical therapist.

I'll check out the link above and your papers Duke Paul. Looking forward to seeing you next month!