Making an effective and cool-looking BASTARD sword thread...

[Glaukos the Athenian]

Pince Cuan makes all his own weapons. Glaukos, Semja took the measurements for the weapon as well and plans on making at least one based on those measurements and discussns he had with Duke Paul.

So I stand corrected. That was a beautiful, well balanced and nice looking weapon.
With little training and drawing from my Kendo and Iaido experience, I was able to use with that sword techniques that I tried and failed with the great sword I made myself a couple of years ago. Blocking, parrying, etc. were possible just as in a real sword.
In other words, that was a rattan sword, and not a stick masquerading as one.

I may need to talk to HH Cuan and Semja about it.

Thanks!

Glaukos

[Glaukos the Athenian]

Andrew,

I would like a Japanese kit that does NOT look like I am wearing armour...

Except for the helm, it should be actually quite easy and super lightweight. Just Hakama, maybe a haori or a jinbaori. That should cover most of the armour and be lightweight enough for this type of fighting.

Now making a list legal helmet look like a half shaved head... is a different challenge

[Nissan Maxima]

Make one that looks like a basket.

[Guy Dawkins]

Maybe 30 inch blade and 12 inch grip, with extra for the fittings?

30" blade? My single handed sword has a 30" blade.

My short longsword has a 36" blade with a 7" grip . My bigger longsword has a 42" blade and a 12" grip.

How tall are you? I am 5'7". My Katanas are usually 27" or 28" long with 12 inch Tsukas. And Shinai have a length of about 33" in the "blade" so I came up with an average. I guess I can use 33" like a shinai.
The #39 shinai, which is standard for adult males is 47" TOTAL, including the "grip" of about 12-13 inches.

I have had this discussion with different people. My two handed sword fighting derives straight from my limited Kendo training. MOST (not all but most) of the two handed sword fighters I have seen and faced use their swords as short polearms. Short two handed hits on the head or shoulders. Yet I know there are great two handed swordsmen out there to learn from. (I have in mind especially Ragnar at Ponte Alto, who is also a super guy) Another bright exception to my experience was the most excellent Earl Nigel, who came to fight me at the bridge with his two handed sword and gave me a most honorable and most enjoyable fight. In fact it was my encounter with him which rekindled my interest in two handed sword fighting. It was fun.

Also, the sword I used in that bout was borrowed from my knight (who I believe borrowed it from HH Duke Cuan), and though longer than my desired length, it was beautifully balanced and worked very well) (I have to ask HH Cuan who made it)
Many such swords are shaped like sticks and balance like halberds.

Mind you, it is not that people are not effective, is that I am not effective using a polearm with a grip at the bottom. I am a shorter guy, and I prefer a two handed sword I can maneuver with and block with, besides just hitting. So perhaps what I am referring to is a Bastard Sword, and not a Longsword, such as a Katana is not Tachi.

Then, I have made an imprecise use of the word Longsword, and I need bastard sword. I apologize for the confusion.

So let's call this a 33" blade and 13 inch grip waster, to allow space for the guard and pommel...

I'm 5'8" and I seam to be shrinking.

[Glaukos the Athenian]

I'm 5'8" and I seam to be shrinking.

They sell stuff for that now. Watch the ads in the minor channels late at night.


Nissan,

How about a Ronin Gasa


http://www.shop-japan.co.jp/english-boku/warring5.htm

(look at the Japanese garb! )

[Effingham]

(Post period.)

[Baron Alcyoneus]

Are you sure? :p

[Theodore]

For the folks cutting the rattan down into more sword-like shapes, how do find it holds up in combat compared to leaving the skin on the rattan? I have traditionally shaved down the sides but left the rattan skin on the striking edges for durability.

Also, under current SCA rules how far can you in making the profile diamond shaped without marshal's giving you a hard time or bouncing it?

[Baron Eirik]

Taking the skin off does reduce the life of the weapon. This can be mitigated by taping a leather strip or cloth webbing along the edge. Most of the fighters I've talked to with these swords are not using them for their weekly practice weapon, but reserving them for when a more authentic overall presentation is important (Pas, Rose Tourneys, historic themed combats).

The edge may not protrude more than 1/2 inch into a legal helm opening, and no 'sharp' edges. My current sword comes down to about 3/4 inch at the edge. Here is a place where an old rule should still be a guideline: would you want hit with it?

[Thomas MacFinn]

I wish I had seen this thread earlier. Since I started making these for Eirik and selling them independently I have been using the terms 'waster' and 'baton' to differentiate between the two types of rattan sword in use, and some other people have started using the same terms. If you want to search for these type of things again, use the word 'waster' in your search.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=136028&hilit=waster

[Baron Alcyoneus]

The edge may not protrude more than 1/2 inch into a legal helm opening, and no 'sharp' edges. My current sword comes down to about 3/4 inch at the edge. Here is a place where an old rule should still be a guideline: would you want hit with it?

I left the original curvature of the rattan on mine, and used a piece of cardstock with a 1" wide by 1/2" deep slot to make sure it stayed legal. It probably could have touched the gage and been legal after taping, but I stayed a little to the cautious side.



Flat sides, angles to the curved cutting eges. I used a spokeshave plane after flat planing from the side to the edges, so they are a little curved as well.

[Thomas MacFinn]

Jamie at Polar Bear Forge only charged a few bucks to add a similar slot to a marshal gauge that I ordered from him.

[Thomas MacFinn]

Take a 4 inch diameter piece of rattan...

By the way, where would you get such a thing?

2.25" - 2.5" has been my upper limit thus far.

[Thomas MacFinn]

Sorry, this has been bugging me since I first read it. Nothing against Jester (his intentions were good), but I have a pet peeve against step by step instructions that the author hasn't tried himself at least half a dozen times.

Take a 2.5 inch diameter piece of rattan (because you just can't find 4" any more). Shave the sides down to 1.5 inch. Shave the edges down so they are 1.25 inch in all directions at the tip and 2.5 inches where the guard will be attached. Take a router (a half inch diameter hemispherical bit) or a curved gouge for finer control and put in a fuller from one inch above the guard up towards the tip. Not all the way to the tip, you want to stop about six inches or more from the tip. Shape the sword outside the fuller but keep the striking surface at least 3/4 inch wide. Hand sand the fuller for a smooth finish with course sandpaper, making sure not to reduce the width of the waster at the top of the fuller below 1.25 inches. Do not fill the fuller in with anything as that just adds back the weight you carved out. Don't drill holes in your rattan.

(Lots of extra steps removed)

Start pricing the guard and pommel you want. Then take a look at a Swordcrafts aluminum trainer (or a type 12 rattan waster from Munitions Grade Arms or foxknife.com) and compare the price. Ask yourself why the hell you're going to all this work. Walk away in frustration. If you come back to the project, finish it as per standard. Don't forget to apply duct-tape.

Fixed.

[Thomas MacFinn]

... I have been using the terms 'waster' and 'baton' to differentiate between the two types of rattan sword in use, and some other people have started using the same terms.

I'm going to start using a third term too: plank.