Critique My SCA Kit

[DeCalmont]

Okay, this thread is for those willing to post their SCA kits in order to get some constructive criticism. The purpose behind this is to move our kits to a more accurate portrayal within the bounds of SCA rules and safety requirements. If you're looking to build a fantasy kit with nickels, this thread isn't for you. Ideally you should post multiple views (front, back, sides, make sure they don't show the nickels) of your kit in good lighting, maybe some action shots and what direction you're planning on going with it.

For those offering criticism, please keep it constructive. If you don't know something, don't just make it up, it kind of defeats the purpose of this thread. I'll be keeping an eye on this thread as much as possible and will delete any content about nickels.

________
DeCalmont
Keeping the world free of Broadway nickels five pennies at a time.

[Thaddeus]

OK I'll bite.
There are several things here that need changing.
I am curious if the hive mind agrees with me.

[Luca Sogliano]

Since I want this get up and going here are my lady and I:

[Oswyn_de_Wulferton]

May I suggest posting a blurb about the timeframe you are aiming for? Otherwise, advice may be a bit off base. Thaddeus, I am guessing around later 13th century, any particular location?

[Gaston de Clermont]

Thaddeus- You look happy as hell, which is entirely the point of what we're doing, so keep doing whatever it is that made you smile like that. I love the helm, and you've done a stellar job hiding your joint armour. It looks like a maile coif, maile chauses and sabatons were common in this era, and they'd increase your bad-assitude. You could do maile mittens, though making those light weight and protective is a major challenge. I'm not sure if it's just because they're laying down, but the surcoats on the effigies seem to show more thigh than you do. Maybe theirs are a little less full? Maybe instead of a simple slit they cut out a triangle? Here's an example of what I'm seeing: http://effigiesandbrasses.com/monuments ... /original/

[Gaston de Clermont]

Luca- You get major cool points for wearing a hat and pattens. I've struggled with hemlines too. It looks to me like you've got a 15th century hem line with 14th century braies and chauses. You typically don't see the braies hanging out so much. Sure, if someone's hanging from the gallows, knocked to the ground, or stripped to the waist, ready to decapitate someone you see all that, and what you're wearing is the right underwear, but standing straight up the tunic/cote/gown usually covers it. You may be able to improve this kit by tailoring the chauses so they're closer to your leg and tucking the braies into them more completely, but I'm guessing your crotch will still be showing some unless the tunic is longer. Seriously that's a neat hat. Where did you get it?

[Thorfinr]

Thaddeus, I love the kit. I know cup hilts and the like are needed. But I had a idea on the hilt. Could it be coverd in chain? To look like a mitten. Or would that just look silly? I dont know but it might be worth thinking on.

[ThorvaldR Skegglauss]

Like Thadeus, I'll bite. Besides a better weapon what could be done to help this kit?

[GenericUnique]

OK I'll bite.
There are several things here that need changing.
I am curious if the hive mind agrees with me.

Firstly, you get quite a few points for having decently fitting mail, rather than hanging wide bits everywhere.

The biggest single thing would be tailoring the surcoat a little more, to create the period's waist effect a little better. It's not like a surcoat has to be loose fitting for movement. The details at the moment look a lot better than the silhouette - but that's an easy thing to change!

[Luca Sogliano]

Luca- You get major cool points for wearing a hat and pattens. I've struggled with hemlines too. It looks to me like you've got a 15th century hem line with 14th century braies and chauses. You typically don't see the braies hanging out so much. Sure, if someone's hanging from the gallows, knocked to the ground, or stripped to the waist, ready to decapitate someone you see all that, and what you're wearing is the right underwear, but standing straight up the tunic/cote/gown usually covers it. You may be able to improve this kit by tailoring the chauses so they're closer to your leg and tucking the braies into them more completely, but I'm guessing your crotch will still be showing some unless the tunic is longer. Seriously that's a neat hat. Where did you get it?

Gaston, thank you very much for both the compliments and the advice. You are certainly right that I should have put more information. Both my lady and I are making an attempt at 1410. She is an Englishwoman, and I am of Venice. This means that the hemline (to the best of my knowledge) is correct, and anything that does not match is wrong. My lady tells me that two piece hosen did exist at this time, but were relegated to the poor. Obviously, this is a failing on my part, as a cotehardie of the type I am wearing is inappropriate with the style of hosen. Correct in the sense that they both existed in the same place at the same time, but inappropriate nonetheless.

So far both attempts at making joined hosen have failed. The yellow unjoined ones you see in the photograph started life as joined hosen, but for several reasons, especially their construction in linen, they were unworkable when joined. Suggestions as to light, stretchy wools to buy would be very helpful. In fact, considering the stretching that the linen hosen have done (leading to the sagging that you mention) we now consider linen hosen out of the question. They stretch, which is great, but they don't spring back.

Since this photo was taken, I've started wearing my braise differently. In the past, I would wear them low and a bit baggy, kind of like a pair of boxer shorts. This would lead to them blowing out, and then the next pair would be baggier, which would blow out faster. The solution, of course, was to pull up my pants instead of trying to emulate a middle school punk, and once I realized that both my look and my braise were raised. Plus, if I blow out one more pair of braise, my lady will kill me.

Ah, the hat. I love that hat too, it was a gift from a friend who made it by hand. It's also the thing I can point to, more than anything else that says "you are doing 1410." It's designed to look like a hood that has been rolled up to wear as a hat, except that it is made to be that way. This is not a modern invention, but a style particular to the early 15th century. Basically, it is the exact evolutionary midpoint between this:



and this:



Which I must say looks most especially like a condom. The roll of the chaperone evolves larger and larger over the 15th century until it eclipses small towns. I call these "magnum" chaperones, though I would highly doubt this is the correct nomenclature.

It is nice to know, Gaston, that your take on my kit was spot on with my assessment of what needed improvement. Thank you.

[bigjon]

Like Thadeus, I'll bite. Besides a better weapon what could be done to help this kit?

Well I can't see the pic very well, but I'd say tighten up the chain under your oculars, to hide the bars a little more. Otherwise an awesome kit!

[Hjorleif]

Bigjon, can you post a hi-res pic of your helmet? I really like that you have the smaller occular (ie. No bar grill), and am looking for decent pictures to base my current Vendel helm construction on.

Thanks!!

Hjorleif

[Thaddeus]

Thanks for the suggestions guys. I appreciate the feedback.

The kit is inspired primarily by this image by Mathew of Paris.


The surcoat was made with materials on hand and the interlining is just too heavy and makes it read more burlap bag than anything else.
It also has zero tailoring to it. I have one cut and waiting to be put together that will, I hope, largely address the shape troubles and give the garment better flow.

I also have a pair of Chausses, although I have yet to come up with a way to attach them to shoes that I am entirely happy with.
The greaves need to go and the gamboised cuisses were sort of a temporary rough draft that I have been using for several years now.
I would like to re-tailor the ventail on my coif, seen here as a small triangular piece hanging at my throat. And I would like to make mittens with some of the scrap mail I have laying about, but again I haven't come up with a method I am entirely happy with and feel safe using, so for now I rely on the 'poo-ona stick' method.
And I need to make something thinner and better fitting for kidney and short rib protection. The large belts that I use currently kill the profile and have a disturbing tendency to ride up and restrict my diaphragm.

[mordreth]

I've had better luck figuring that surcoats aren't going to have a long working life, they drape a whole lot better with a single layer of reasonable weight fabric.

[Bastior]

And I need to make something thinner and better fitting for kidney and short rib protection. The large belts that I use currently kill the profile and have a disturbing tendency to ride up and restrict my diaphragm.

Although an earlier period I had the same problem and the best solution I have stolen is a partial belt of lamellar plates that points onto the padding I wear under my mail. Being thinner than the leather I used to use and not requiring a 'shot proof' buckle the profile is better and because it doesn't fasten at the front it doesn't restrict my breathing. Since it's not a complete circle you may need to fiddle with how tight the lacing is so it follows your body rather than being to be too stiff and poking out at the front.

B

[ThorvaldR Skegglauss]

Like Thadeus, I'll bite. Besides a better weapon what could be done to help this kit?

Well I can't see the pic very well, but I'd say tighten up the chain under your oculars, to hide the bars a little more. Otherwise an awesome kit!

Yeah, I have done that. It came loose somehow in transit from Germany but has since been reattached to the top bar with sinew. I will see if I can figure out a way to get that pic "larger" and still fit on the archive.

regards
ThorvaldR

[Kormak]

Hell, jump on the band wagon shall we...

Early Rus-Slav...

[bigjon]

Bigjon, can you post a hi-res pic of your helmet? I really like that you have the smaller occular (ie. No bar grill), and am looking for decent pictures to base my current Vendel helm construction on.

Thanks!!

Hjorleif

[Hjorleif]

Thanks!

[Cisco]

Kormak, the wide leather kidney belt and large gauntlets scream at me. I know gauntlets become a necessity...is the leather belt period correct for you?

[Griffith Dragonlake]

Like Thadeus, I'll bite. Besides a better weapon what could be done to help this kit?

Agreed, the kit looks really good as it. But when I consider that you are a duke. . .

First your clothing is a bid drab for someone of your station. As the Vendel equivalent of a duke, you should be displaying your wealth in terms of rich colors, e.g. purples, deep blues or reds, etc. Maybe even some nicely tailored fur over your winnagas. And certainly some contrasting colors -- you've got a tunic, undertunic, breeches, winnegas, and boots to mix and match the colors. I would proceed cautiously with trim as most of what I've seen are actually quite modern designs and not every noble in every place and time had trim.

The second and really minor improvement would be to tailor your mail a bit so that it is a bit more close fitting especially around the arms. As a great noble, you would have the finest made maille in the land.

Third, and this may not be period at all for you, would be to add some sort of a leather crest, like a boar or a raven. Duke Thorfinn the Cruel has a raven and it enhances his kit noticeably.

In summary, as a great warlord or sea-king you should dress to impress everyone of your wealth. You would've gotten first pick of the spoils of war as well as the wealth to import luxury goods to suit your taste.

[Griffith Dragonlake]

And I would like to make mittens with some of the scrap mail I have laying about, but again I haven't come up with a method I am entirely happy with and feel safe using, so for now I rely on the 'poo-ona stick' method.

Are leather gauntlets with a cross-hilt sword an option? Torvaldr makes some very nice looking ones. And there is some nice sword furniture out there for sale (Windrose, et al.).

[chris19d]

English, last quarter of the 14th C.

Heres the most recent pic of my kit, (the covering on the shield has been fixed since then) and my giant list of things im less than satisfied with. I'm working on a set of temporary splinted greaves to use until I can afford cased greaves and sabs, at some point I need to remove the bluing from the gauntlets and polish them, eventually I'd like to replace/modify the helm to a more correct setup (side hinged pigface) the coat of plates needs more tailoring, and eventually I'd like to replace the wisby style coat with something more fashionable for the late 14th C, also planning on adding maile when I can fit it into the budget.

[Vladimir]

Well, if you got rid of the karate get up and the roman type helm we might have a starting point.

[Karl Helweg]

English, last quarter of the 14th C.

I am skipping most of the things that you already mentioned that you are working on. Your kit looks pretty good. I wish that more of my opponents looked as good. Is that a strap running all of the way around your cannon/rear-brace? Can you strap it underneath the rear-brace? That would look neater. Can you have a big handed friend bend the lames on your pauldrons in to better fit your upper arm (without making them too tight)? How about wood grain contact paper or even black tape on the haft of your mace so that it more like a real mace to a casual non-SCA observer? (maybe adding a thrusting tip?) I have been working on this idea with a similar mace that I have. Can you make simple half greaves out of relatively thin steel as an interim measure? I have had a little luck shaping greaves using a lead hammer and dishing stump. A plaque belt might look sexy especially when you find a jupon or other more English body armour. Basegews can make you look bigger and help protect your armpits for sneaky lefties (2nd from left). They are also simple to make.

[Garret Thornwood]

Here is mine I put it together this year. I was going for mid-late 14th English foot solider/Man at Arms. I already have steel arms coming to match the legs. I usually wear period shoes but it was slippery. I like the protection of the plate. Pics on my wife's Facebook http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set= ... 968327a482. I know it is a fairly generic SCA kit, but where is the fun if only already good looking kits get shown.

[Tomburr]

Garret,

Really, that isn't bad at all. Looks way better than many, many others out there. Hell, I can even tell what time & place you're persona comes from.

A few suggestions, at a glance- some are quick & easy, some are not:

Period turn shoes

Aventail

Chainmaille hauburgeon- it would really make a huge impact on your overall look

Paint your bar grille flat black

Add a nice cast brass buckle & some decorative castings to the belt, and maybe some small cast brass buckles for armour straps later on when you're bored

Finger gauntlets

The splinted vambraces and simple shoulder cops are a bit early to be worn with the chest protection and plate legs. I'd figure out whether you want to go with Wisby-era or 100 Years War era and dress to match. Your current kit has armour from a bit of both eras mixed together.

If you go earlier, get gamboised chausses, soup can knees and shynbalds, a CoP, Wisby-style gauntlets, a longer surcoat, and keep the arm armour.

If you go later, get encased arm armour, cased greaves, a short surcoat with sleeves, a plaque belt, and keep the legs.

[Kormak]

Cisco-
No. just havent made up a hidden rig I am happy with yet.. Should have the kinks worked out shortly though..

When I do I will post a follow up..

[Oswyn_de_Wulferton]

What about simply moving the kidney belt under the tunic? Add a small dress belt to define your waist, and it is a easy fix.

[Varukh]

Ok..I haven't really had my kit really critiqued since i posted my first kit and got tore apart for it. So here goes:




Finger gauntlets are in the works right now so hopefully i will be ditching the basket hilts soon.
Trying to get somewhere in the time period of the late 1400's to early 1500's Rus. (i think )

[Alric of Drentha]

@ Thorvaldr,

The shoes seem a little late for the helmet - I want to say they're c. 10th century?

Is there a reason to put the non-period bracers over your sleeve rather than hidden beneath?

Please take my nit picking as a compliment to a lovely kit!

[ThorvaldR Skegglauss]

@ Thorvaldr,

The shoes seem a little late for the helmet - I want to say they're c. 10th century?

Is there a reason to put the non-period bracers over your sleeve rather than hidden beneath?

Please take my nit picking as a compliment to a lovely kit!

Thanks for noting that. It is one of the (to me) glaring "wrong" things. The problem has been that I find putting the bazubands under the tunic really hampers my arm movement for fighting. I have some close fitting elbow cops that I want to try pointing to some pads and a slim vambrace and try that under the tunic. I just have been lazy and haven't put it together yet.

As for the tunics. Yeah some richer colors would be probably more appropriate other than the fact that I really like earth tones.

General Question: Should I shorten the sleaves on the maille?

regards
ThorvaldR

[Vladimir]

I've tried putting the armour under my sleeve too. It required a really baggy sleeve.

My new tunics are much more tailored, so the armour must go on the outside.

[olaf haraldson]

I would... say just above the elbow.

General Question: Should I shorten the sleaves on the maille?

regards
ThorvaldR

[Cisco]

General Question: Should I shorten the sleaves on the maille?

regards
ThorvaldR

No. Tightening the sleeves up a bit wouldn't be bad if you wanted it to not hang so loose but I wouldn't shorten it.