Critique My SCA Kit

[zalbad]

Got another pic. I am at work atm so cant get suited up and get good pics.

http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y41 ... ed218d.png
that is for the fitting around the shoulders. when u say i should fit it better should i cut the fabric around the lines i made. and shoulders have benn moved to the arrow since but i am still having a tad bit of a problem with them falling forward.

[ARMOURER ERIC]

Well, I made the shoulders, I'm thinking that maybe the mounting location on your brig may need a piece of sewn in leather reinforcement. Are you lacing through both holes?

[zalbad]

I have a 2 pieces of 8oz leather underneath its currently not sewn in. ill do that this weekend and see how they point. on a side note i have been super happy with your shoulders. only one little dent, and that was from a wonderful pole arm in a melee. just need to give it some love to with the ball peen and should come right out. and yes i am using both holes.

[Swete]

I have a 2 pieces of 8oz leather underneath its currently not sewn in. ill do that this weekend and see how they point. on a side not i have been super happy with your shoulders. only one little dent, and that was from a wonderful pole arm in a melee. just need to give it some love to with the ball peen and should come right out. and yes i am using both holes.

The last sentence, when read out of context, is...um...interesting.

[RoundTop]

All love to the ball peen. Using both holes.

Once I complete my torso I'll post my stuff up here (likely Feb time frame). I have everything else complete right now

[zalbad]

To all who are helping with pointers thank you. I sewed in the leather arming points and marked out the place i need to tailor on the cop not just to figure out how to sew it with my sewing machine with all the plates.

[Johann ColdIron]

To all who are helping with pointers thank you. I sewed in the leather arming points and marked out the place i need to tailor on the cop not just to figure out how to sew it with my sewing machine with all the plates.

Good on moving the attachment points higher up on your trapezius muscles .

If the spaulders are still rolling forward then the need to be pointed further to the rear as well. I find that the strap best ride behind the ridge of the traps that lead to your neck. It is a common problem. When hung correctly the top two plates should cup the shoulder joint.

If you are having problems using a machine you may want to consider hand sewing the tabs on. A curved needle can be handy if it is directly above a plate.

[zalbad]

The tabs i did hand sew. I am hoping not to have to hand sew the tailoring i plan to do. I may just have to hand do that as well. when i was messing with it today i noticed that it rides forward if i did not sit it right on my shoulders think that may be a big problem that i tend to rush when i suit up for fighting. and the cop is sitting a tad far forward so in turn my shoulder sag forward.

[AdamG]

Looking for improvements Late 1190s Anglo-Norman Fighting Kit

Wood Flat top kite with rawhide edged shield
Considering Brazil nut or wheel pommel with straight quillions from windrose on the sword.

Thoughts?

[Henrik Granlid]

Perhaps cover your metal gauntlets in something?
Also, tailoring your hauberk in the sleeves if it isn't already, otherwise it looks good to me

[GodfreyofGyldenholt]

Submitting my kit for critique, aspirant mid 14th century english. Current to do list-

Add maille aventail, sleeves, and skirt
Add layered garments
New arm harness
Period shield
Period sword

Looking forward to hearing your critiques!

Godfrey

[Henrik Granlid]

I would make certain to get an arm harness with besagues similar to those on your spaulders, and I would also try to find a pair for the side of your knees, that way, you'll balance up your spaulders with your knees and elbows. I would also advice full plate arms and legs if you have the money for it, because you have a rather dark palette for your kit and the mirror finish steel would contrast it nicely, it would also allow you to go from mid 14th to early 15th in pretty much the same arm and leg harness without much effort.

When you get your aventail, stitch it to your neckpadding, it looks better, doesn't drag on the padding making your head slower to turn or anything like that.

What exactly do you mean by getting a "Period shield" and "Period sword"?

[GodfreyofGyldenholt]

Hello Heinrik,
Forgot this photo didn't have the besegews on my elbows, I definitely agree about the arm harness, I would like to have steel vambraces and rebrace. based on my finds gamboised cuisses are appropriate for the look I'm trying to achieve (I've fought in steel leg harnesses and they aren't my favorite). I have thought that a natural linen would contrast a bit better however and add for a more period appearance than the straight black. As for the rondels on the knees I can't recall seeing too many effigies from the period with rondels on the knees, not to say that there aren't but the vast majority don't. As for the period shield I would like to own one that has the correct dimensions, construction materials etc, and sword fittings for my sword as opposed to a basket hilt.

Cheers,
Godfrey

[Henrik Granlid]

Natural linnen would contrast however, be careful that it does not contrast so as to look like cricket protection, since your current arming garment is dark in colour, you might end up "having to" replace the entire arming garment to get a unified look with natural linnen for your thighs. In Germany, splinted thighs can be seen on effigies for quite a long while, mayap that would be a viable compromise to get a look that meshes well with the rest of the kit? You could get broad mirror splints over your normal arming-garment coloured padding.

[Munz]

Godfrey, I don't know of any period examples (effigies, paintings or extant armor pieces) that have a "rondel" or "besagew" at the knee so I would avoid that. As for linen gamboised cuisses you don't have to use white. Find a gold color that works with your kit (or red, or black!). Or we could find an appropriate color based on a period color scheme from a miniature or altarpiece painted during the mid 14th cent. It's always a safe bet to look at colors used during the time period you are wanting to represent. Also, if you are going for an English look I would not necessarily use German effigies as a basis for your kit design. Look instead at an English effigy. There are a lot of period examples of black or blued armors so there is not a need to go to a mirrored or polished look.

[MJBlazek]

Munz are you talking about specifically for the 14th century? I have found a number of miniatures with to deals on the knees:
http://manuscriptminiatures.com/4057/11368/
Just one example off a quick search. But it is from the early 15th century.

[EnderPC]

Hello,
So here is my current kit. I'm not trying to be too historically accurate just somewhere in the 1100-1200ish Norman area. I am going to wear a tunic underneath my surcoat to better hide my arms and evetually want to get a chain shirt. My question really is what to do with my legs and feet? I'm assuming chain chausses with braes and hose would be correct but how would that work in SCA terms? What kind of shoes would be appropriate? I have a pair of mild plate legs now and I like the feel and protection of them. I'm just not sure what direction to take.

[Henrik Granlid]

Far as I know, but don't quote me on this, chain chausses are more of a 13th century thing than a 12th century thing, are they not? If not, disregard, if they are, you could get away with what you have on your legs right now with just the swap from boots to turnshoes and I think you'd be fairly set.

You could consider swapping your basket hilt for a metallic bar-grill-basket-hilt instead, then you could pad it with your colours, you'd still notice "Oh, basket" but you'd also go "Nice idea/Cool basket" rather than black blob of doom.

[Munz]

Munz are you talking about specifically for the 14th century? I have found a number of miniatures with to deals on the knees:
http://manuscriptminiatures.com/4057/11368/
Just one example off a quick search. But it is from the early 15th century.

Hmmm… It's an interesting miniature but not what I would call very conclusive. To my eye it's a rather simplified looking fan, especially since that's a 15th century kit and he's wearing full steel leg armor that's long past the transitional "soup can" and gamboised cuisse period. I personally don't see that as a "pointed on" "rondel" looking disc. But hey, I could be wrong. I would like to see some more conclusive evidence, maybe something that is 3 dimensional - a carving on a tomb or church monument perhaps.

[Swete]

Hello, My question really is what to do with my legs and feet? I'm assuming chain chausses with braes and hose would be correct but how would that work in SCA terms? What kind of shoes would be appropriate? I have a pair of mild plate legs now and I like the feel and protection of them. I'm just not sure what direction to take.

My knight, Sir Grimbaldus Bacon, who fights in head to toe maille, took some hunting boots, cut them off at the ankle, and stitched the chauses and maille sabatons onto those with great success.

[RoundTop]

Ok, time to nut up or shut up. Here is my kit c. 1350 western european.

I know the shoulders are slightly later period (got the right ones coming in).
I know the knees are slightly later period (got the proper ones on order with Mad Matt)
I know the elbows are slightly later period (got the proper ones on order with Mad Matt)

Please feel free to critique. (CoP is kussnach style using 301 stainless steel)

In combat:

fight.jpg (26.4 KiB) Viewed 8878 times

Just standing around (No gauntlets)

gear.jpg (79.08 KiB) Viewed 8878 times

[Tom B.]

Munz are you talking about specifically for the 14th century? I have found a number of miniatures with to deals on the knees:
http://manuscriptminiatures.com/4057/11368/
Just one example off a quick search. But it is from the early 15th century.

Hmmm… It's an interesting miniature but not what I would call very conclusive. To my eye it's a rather simplified looking fan, especially since that's a 15th century kit and he's wearing full steel leg armor that's long past the transitional "soup can" and gamboised cuisse period. I personally don't see that as a "pointed on" "rondel" looking disc. But hey, I could be wrong. I would like to see some more conclusive evidence, maybe something that is 3 dimensional - a carving on a tomb or church monument perhaps.

I think Munz is right to advise caution here.
We have to be careful about our modern tendency of trying to make everything "match".
This is how the re-enactorism of "soup can elbows" came about.

I am not saying that the rondels on the knees did not exist just commenting on the tendency to try and make arms and legs match.
By all means look to the art and go with what you see there.

[Vladimir]

Please feel free to critique. (CoP is kussnach style using 301 stainless steel)

Ok,

You're an evil lefty.

[Varukh]

Please feel free to critique. (CoP is kussnach style using 301 stainless steel)

Ok,

You're an evil lefty.

agreed! you need to learn to hold your sword in the proper hand.

[boris_]

Italian 1400s ( I am planning to narrow in on both )
Things next on my agenda.
Finish up my clamshell kit to replace the gloves
Get the plates from Mad Matt and make the body armor in the last few images
http://imgur.com/a/7FxpG

[RoundTop]

Italian 1400s ( I am planning to narrow in on both )
Things next on my agenda.
Finish up my clamshell kit to replace the gloves
Get the plates from Mad Matt and make the body armor in the last few images
http://imgur.com/a/7FxpG

Only thing I can spot is that by the 15th century, the use of splinted armour like your upper legs was in serious decline.

That said, the corrizina (spelling is screwed up I'm sure) may tie this together reasonably well if the leather colour matches the legs.

Consider greaves. Not SCA required, but period-wise were. Also, what kind of shoes are you wearing? Even the best kit looks like ass with modern sneakers.

[boris_]

Yup.The legs werey first piece od armor (I bought them off A more experienced fighter when I started a year ago)
Greaves (likely splinted since I can make them, but hopefully cased) are also on the agenda.
I have a pair of brown boots I wear, I am saving up for a more period Pair.

I was also mulling over the idea of doing the kit with Bacinet and maybe splinted arms, as an late 14th early 15th kit.

Italian 1400s ( I am planning to narrow in on both )
Things next on my agenda.
Finish up my clamshell kit to replace the gloves
Get the plates from Mad Matt and make the body armor in the last few images
http://imgur.com/a/7FxpG

Only thing I can spot is that by the 15th century, the use of splinted armour like your upper legs was in serious decline.

That said, the corrizina (spelling is screwed up I'm sure) may tie this together reasonably well if the leather colour matches the legs.

Consider greaves. Not SCA required, but period-wise were. Also, what kind of shoes are you wearing? Even the best kit looks like ass with modern sneakers.

[HROTHGAR/RPN416]

this is what im fighting in right now , looking at getting lamillar

[bhaiduk]

Its hard to tell much from the picture, but I would start with getting a long sleeve tunic that would cover your vambraces and elbow cops. Then I would ditch or hide the greaves. You can get descent priced Viking boots from vikingleathercraft.com. I love the helm. Lamellar would work, as would chain.

[Harry Marinakis]

Updated my kit from my prior kit posted on Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:04 pm

Bockten linen tunic
klappvisor (mild steel)
Aventail (mild steel, flat rings, wedge riveted)
CoP (5-6 oz. leather with aluminum plates)
Spaulders (aluminum)
Cuisse belt
Faux-splinted cuir bouilli cuisses
Soupcan poleyns (aluminum)
Faux-splint cuir bouilli schynbalds
Hidden elbow cops (aluminum)
Bracers (aluminum)
Mitten gauntlets (aluminum)
Silk surcoat with linen lining

Spaulders are not period, but I'm old and I need the protection.

Larger photo attached below

10906121_898758760168178_3950088040109096157_n.jpg (73.09 KiB) Viewed 8270 times

[Henrik Granlid]

Looks good!

Might want to try to get the greaves a bit less poofy and new gauntlets.

Your aventail could do with some padding to make it literally stand out more and to get that nice historic look.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8369/8501 ... ecfc2c.jpg

I would reckommend rearbraces and a floating, smaller cup on the shoulder. Either that or you want to cover your arms down to just past your elbow in chain. Since you're doing 1340, just sleeves are perfectly okay from a historical point of view and would make the kit come together nicely, giving you a much heavier look and allowing you to hide the shoulders to some extent.

[Harry Marinakis]

Thank you Henrik!

[Konstantin the Red]

Right now Wicked Otto's greaves are not shaped -- they're stovepipes. Dunno as you could reshape cuir-bouilli by rewetting, now it's baked... but the same process plus wet-forming gutter greaves before baking and surface finishing ought to set off Otto's sexy ankles just fine. Slightly expensive because of the material -- Myron's laminated canvas would be the budget route, and all sorts of coverings or additions to the fabric-and-glue laminate pieces can be deployed to enormous sartorial effect.

The gaunts are pretty much great big clams, right? Really, any gaunt that's enough gauntlet to convert a sharp impact into a general momentary mashing is protective enough -- the meat of your hands can take a good bit of mashing. Those gaunts look roomy enough to pack a ham sandwich for padding into each metacarpal -- and being thus victualed as well as fortified, you might endure a siege!

Since you're doing 1340, just sleeves are perfectly okay from a historical point of view and would make the kit come together nicely, giving you a much heavier look and allowing you to hide the shoulders . . .

1340 AD is not bad, I think, for a 5/8 mail sleeve teamed with vambraces + gaunts or a long-cuff gaunt with articulation (under a leathern shell) at the wrist -- like they came back to a generation or two later in 15th-c. plate gaunts, after the generation of the hourglasses.

An often-found characteristic of those 5/8 sleeves was a split to the end of the sleeve, about 4 fingersbreadths deep for greatest possible freedom to the elbow -- plus any cop stuffed in there.

[Harry Marinakis]

Might want to try to get the greaves a bit less poofy.

Yes they are just stovepipes. I will reshape those - a quick soak in wter and back to the oven with some reshaping.

I would reckommend rearbraces and a floating, smaller cup on the shoulder. Either that or you want to cover your arms down to just past your elbow in chain. Since you're doing 1340, just sleeves are perfectly okay from a historical point of view and would make the kit come together nicely, giving you a much heavier look and allowing you to hide the shoulders to some extent.

1340 AD is not bad, I think, for a 5/8 mail sleeve teamed with vambraces + gaunts or a long-cuff gaunt with articulation (under a leathern shell) at the wrist -- like they came back to a generation or two later in 15th-c. plate gaunts, after the generation of the hourglasses.

I've been thinking about this a lot, adding sleeves... Can you be more specific on how to hang chain sleeves from the CoP? I hesitate to go with less shoulder protection, I don't heal like I used to, and I'm usually in the front line during charges.

The gaunts are pretty much great big clams, right?

I will look into suggestions for more period hand protection, any specific suggestions?

Thanks again!

[Henrik Granlid]

In all honesty, period for the 40's are chainmail mittens and Visby gauntlets, England has a special kind of cuff as well, concentric steel rings riveted to leather. I've seen some good sca chainmail gauntlets, I'll see if I can get you a link. Otherwise, the Age of Craft "brigandine" mittens and gauntlets have gotten decent reviews.


As for sleeves, sew them to your gambeson like you would voiders, then you could put the small metal shoulderplates either onto the mail directly through pointing, or attached to the coat of plate. A hardened leather rearbrace to protect the meat of the muscles could be added on top.


EDIT:

Here are the chainmail mittens I was talking about.
http://www.sharukhanmarket.com/chainmail-mittens/

Then there's Age of Craft
http://ageofcraft.com/index.php?route=p ... uct_id=124
http://ageofcraft.com/index.php?route=p ... uct_id=123

I know Mad Matt and Johan1212 both make fake-finger mittens with Visby cuffs and both are here on the archive. They land around 4-500 dollars for mild if I recall correctly.

Then there's this one archiver who makes absolutely gorgeous visby gauntlets, however, I cannot remember his name.