The Armour Archive

Cedric the Tall wrote:Here is a video of Duke Felix Ramsey of the Middle fighting goofy foot. As my squire brother would say, Felix doesn't suck

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWoVW7Ng0aA

Ask HG Felix about his defense against the Xena Scream move, or should I say lack thereof...

St. G-

Well I know what I'm doing Val Day now

It seems that all Trimarans fight sword leg forward. I dont like to think about it that way. My neutral, pre engagement, position has my shield leg forward. Once the fight has moved into trying-to-hit-each-other phase either leg will be forward depending entirely on our respective movements.

Dietrich von Stroheim wrote:Here's an answer from an east coast sword-foot-forward fighter!

For reference, I fight with a 36-38" sword and a knee-to-chest strapped heater and bring a very mobile, active fight.

1) It messes with opponents who aren't used to it, which is a lot
2) It doesn't introduce much risk, as most people's shot arsenals only have crappy offside leg shots
3) Baits people into shooting at the right leg with said crappy offside shot, countered by a quick step in and a heavy looping wrap (among other options for a riposte).
4) Added range, and more importantly, deceptive range. I like being able to hit people before they realize they are in my range. I'll often open up with a flat-snap to offside leg crosscut, which can result in an 'oh crap I'm in range, shields up! Oh double crap, that was a combo/feint, I'm going to have a bruise on my right hip' reaction.

I don't always fight sword-foot-forward--it depends on the opponent and what he is bringing. But more often than not this is how I will go at it.

This!! You can tell I learned a lot from you huh?

It's not something I would suggest if you're from a kingdom that takes a stiffer shot, unless you have a lot of upper body strength.

Proper technique will allow you to strike with force. As to the Xena "scream move." Well lets just say if you can get your opponet to stand there and say, "George what the F#@k are you doing?" Then you deserve to win. I stood there and died so now I wear ear plugs and the inside on my shield is a mirror, just in case.

I can vouch for that

Corby de la Flamme wrote:It's not something I would suggest if you're from a kingdom that takes a stiffer shot, unless you have a lot of upper body strength.

Never really noticed a problem and I'm not a big guy.
Drefan

Pietro di Trento wrote:

Dietrich von Stroheim wrote:Here's an answer from an east coast sword-foot-forward fighter!

For reference, I fight with a 36-38" sword and a knee-to-chest strapped heater and bring a very mobile, active fight.

1) It messes with opponents who aren't used to it, which is a lot
2) It doesn't introduce much risk, as most people's shot arsenals only have crappy offside leg shots
3) Baits people into shooting at the right leg with said crappy offside shot, countered by a quick step in and a heavy looping wrap (among other options for a riposte).
4) Added range, and more importantly, deceptive range. I like being able to hit people before they realize they are in my range. I'll often open up with a flat-snap to offside leg crosscut, which can result in an 'oh crap I'm in range, shields up! Oh double crap, that was a combo/feint, I'm going to have a bruise on my right hip' reaction.

I don't always fight sword-foot-forward--it depends on the opponent and what he is bringing. But more often than not this is how I will go at it.

This!! You can tell I learned a lot from you huh?

Heheh, I'm glad you are putting it to use! You just won a tourney, right?

It is an untrue belief that sword-foot-forward cannot be used effectively against a leftie, or by a leftie against a normal human Duke Logan's 'shield on head, sword basket on right knee' stance works great against a sinister opponent, as does a closed-form 'shield out front sword basket above shoulder' like HRH Bryan.

Fighting sword-foot-forward is not intrinsically better or worse than shield foot forward. It just requires a different way of moving the body with and around the shield, to be effective.

Dietrich von Stroheim wrote:
It is an untrue belief that sword-foot-forward cannot be used effectively against a leftie, or by a leftie against a normal human Duke Logan's 'shield on head, sword basket on right knee' stance works great against a sinister opponent, as does a closed-form 'shield out front sword basket above shoulder' like HRH Bryan.

Fighting sword-foot-forward is not intrinsically better or worse than shield foot forward. It just requires a different way of moving the body with and around the shield, to be effective.

I actually prefer sword-foot-forward against a lefty.

depends on the lefty, and how much you are willing to commit defense to that forward leg. I have tried the "Logan" (I think I learned it from Sir Teric in the EK first) anti lefty with shield high sword low goofy foot, but I find it (personally) extremely difficult to develop offense from that guard.

As to Corby's point -- if the only way you can generate sufficient power (no matter what kingdom) is with a fully committed full hip rotation bellatrix-style power snap, then, yeah, goofy foot might be a problem. Of course you can always start there, wait for something to happen (motion/strike), slide the right foot back, and load. But Corby is a "fixed stance" guy anyway (not that there's anything wrong with that!!!!).

ive lost, i think, two fights to lefties since i started doing that style over a decade ago. it actually started more as a joke when i took the fourth or fifth shot down the length of my spine by duke anton tremayne at a practice. he stepped in and i threw my shield on top of my head as i stepped forward with my right leg bringing my hilt down to block his shot.

for me it is not an offensive style (well it can be visually offensive ). i wait until they commit a shot (which either hits the shield or the sword) and then jump in throwing two shots as they try to recover/block/step back/etc. i also will occasionally jump into their oncoming leg shot while turning (sword usually hits my buttocks but is robbed of any power) which leaves a clear shot to the top of their shoulders or center of the shoulder blades. i dont do it as often because it tends to hit very hard to a usually unarmoured spot.

ive had a lot of folks try to thrust against it. its never worked as its too easy to block and usually leaves the arm wide open for the counter.

regards
logan

Sigifrith Hauknefr wrote:depends on the lefty, and how much you are willing to commit defense to that forward leg. I have tried the "Logan" (I think I learned it from Sir Teric in the EK first) anti lefty with shield high sword low goofy foot, but I find it (personally) extremely difficult to develop offense from that guard.

As to Corby's point -- if the only way you can generate sufficient power (no matter what kingdom) is with a fully committed full hip rotation bellatrix-style power snap, then, yeah, goofy foot might be a problem. Of course you can always start there, wait for something to happen (motion/strike), slide the right foot back, and load. But Corby is a "fixed stance" guy anyway (not that there's anything wrong with that!!!!).

Corby de la Flamme wrote:It's not something I would suggest if you're from a kingdom that takes a stiffer shot, unless you have a lot of upper body strength.

That must be why nobody up in An Tir or the West does it...oh, wait...

lefty vs righty.. its RARE to have a righty do this since its much more common for lefthanded fighters to face righties. righty fighters give the leg up for a head shot ( doesnt always work, but its worth a try if you ass is in your hands and nothing has worked thus far.)

as a lefthanded fighter fighting center grip Ill bring my sword leg forward to entice.. since I can crossblock rather easy in an A frame stance. I usually do it to get a righty to commit to the leg, wrap as I cross block and go shoulder high with the shot, it either gets the shoulder or the head depending on how far they commited. ( keep in mind Ive been out of armor for almost 3 years though with injury and army so the game may have changed:D I know my timing has.)

oh and Felix doesnt go sword leg forward vs lefties.. least he didnt in 03... things may have been different for him had he:D

i was patiently waiting for sigifrith to answer this post thanks Scientist!

Maybe I haven't put credit where credit is due. In my experience, Duke Hrangvaldr of the Middle is the first guy I ever saw fighting sword leg forward, basket on leg, shield on head.

For brevity, I refer to the style as Oscar the Grouch.

Blaine de Navarre wrote:At least here in Caid, goofy-foot gained popularity along with center-grip shields. Besides the aforementioned additional range, it makes it easier to stay off your knees when using a center-grip shield. AFAIK, if anyone is fighting goofy-foot with a strapped shield it is just habit left over from fighting with center-grip.

No Blaine... I have never fought with a center grip shield.


but I do switch to my sword leg forward during fights... two reasons... a few extra inches reach with out closing the distance and bait...

One comment on all of this.

If you have one foot out in front all the time, whichever one it may be, you're doing it wrong

We move in this game.

And most of the time, I fight sword foot forward - but that's 'cuz I cheat, there's a sword for each foot, and I try to never be squared up

define "squared up". i fight with my shoulders squared and my feet squared if that means a straight line between me and my opponent.

regards
logan

Kilkenny wrote:One comment on all of this.

If you have one foot out in front all the time, whichever one it may be, you're doing it wrong

We move in this game.

And most of the time, I fight sword foot forward - but that's 'cuz I cheat, there's a sword for each foot, and I try to never be squared up

The only truism is that there are no truisms.

Depends on how I feel about the fight. I'm constantly switching my feet and
usually swing one or the other around to get power or position for a shot.

Duke Inman referred to it as "old man style" because he didn't have to move as
much to hit at range.

If you know what you are doing either style works well.

I'm new to armored combat but I've been doing unarmored for a few years. I'll be honest shield foot forward puts me into a static defense mindset, while when i think of offense i think goofy foot. This may just be because i'm a cross over fighter. My question, should i practice the style that feels strange to me but is the one recommended by the fighter's of my barony for new folks, or go with the position and movements my body knows?

The one you are used to. It will help you adapt quicker, IMO. That, and if you did it using real swords, then I would use it.

Although I concur with Kilkenny's statement that it's better to fight in a fluid, motion-oriented style rather than a series of "snapshot" stances, it could be said that I've been fighting sword-and-board "goofy foot"* for about 25 years or so. That's because I tend to close into range with my right foot forward. Possibly because I'm not only more of a two-sworder than sword-and-boarder but also a rapier/smallsword fighter, this approach seems to tie in better with all the other sword fighting I do. Again, because of those other styles, I'm more thrust-oriented than most SCA Heavy fighters, too...which again makes a sword lead attractive. I find it a very viable style, and have never had problems delivering hard enough blows, at least if I don't get sloppy about mechanics.


* I always called it "sword lead."

Did some sword foot forward this weekend, really enjoyed it.

Yojimbo wrote:Did some sword foot forward this weekend, really enjoyed it.

Care to elaborate as to why you enjoyed It? What were the pro and cons?

Pietro di Trento wrote:

Yojimbo wrote:Did some sword foot forward this weekend, really enjoyed it.

Care to elaborate as to why you enjoyed It? What were the pro and cons?

My sword foot and side brought the sword closer to the opponent, as well as my sword leg no longer being available as a close target.

I have never had trouble generating power from sword foot forward. I do not have problems with lefties either.

I recently went to right leg forward and now prefer it to the opposite...then again, I had my ass handed to me last weekend at War practice pick-ups (thanks Ku Jin, Olaf and Alexander!). Oh well, just need to fight more...